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Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Look, there's no need to be outrageous. It's only city dwellers that will starve/ emigrate if intel/ multinationals leave and the excrement hits the fan with Russia.

    You can't expect farmers to care about anyone but themselves....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    It's easier to be destructive than constructive.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Who’s the “they” you are talking about though? He was “wronged” by the IDA and he’s going after Intel

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    What went in his favour? Every redevelopment they’ve planned has gone ahead.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,224 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You have already answered the question correctly.

    Of course it was the IDA who tried to take his land.

    What were they going to do with it?

    If the IDA left him alone the entire debacle wouldn't have happened.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Ok so the IDA we’re going to take his land, but he’s taking “revenge” on Intel. How does that make any sense at all?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,224 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Ok so we both know what the land was wanted for.

    To most people it doesn't make any sense what Thomas Read is doing but then he isn't most people.

    The IDA tried to shake down the wrong guy and they bear responsibility for the entire debacle.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,331 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Every application that they made did not go in their favour however which is considerably different.

    How could a single person working by candlelight manage to outsmart highly paid consultants? The only reason any developments went ahead was because they followed the correct procedures. They did not follow the correct procedures initially all the time - is that hard for you to understand?

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,331 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The IDA scenario was just one case. Reid appealed many of Intel's subsequent planning applications and was found to be correct in most cases.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    When an outsider comes in to Ireland and tries to wrestle land out from under the Irish against their will, it isn't going to go down well.

    Nationally this is our history, having spend 800 years under the jackboot of foreign usurpers , naturally we are going to resist any attempt at the same craic again on a smaller scale with the outsiders being dressed up as friendly multinationals and the Ida. With their environmental shenanigans and trickery they have shown their true colours.

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭Ginger83




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    This old thread back to life.. 😲

    Hard to say what it means longer-term. Intel Leixlip is not going away anytime soon but there in no doubt that the planning fight Intel had on their hands here is a major reason why the big investment of an entirely new fab site went to Germany.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Ok, which developments on the site did his objections stop?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I understand exactly what happened. No need to get snarky. Intel had to make minor adjustments to their plans and perform extra environmental assessments.


    In the end the development went ahead in spite of further vexatious objections from Reid. He didn’t “outsmart” anyone, he isn’t some sort of righteous crusader. He objected to every development on the Intel site before and after the CPO debacle. He believes that Intel is poisoning the Rye river, with a mountain of evidence to the contrary, and he’s objecting purely out of selfishness.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Name them so. What developments did he stop?


    He raised minor objections which were dealt with by Intel. Which is his right, but he won nothing.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I really don’t think the “planning fight” had much to do with it at all.


    There were a number of bigger factors. The 2 biggest ones being skilled labour and guaranteed power. One of these new fans needs huge amounts of both. Intel are currently struggling to hire enough people for 1 new fab, they’re smart enough to know they can’t staff a 2nd one in Ireland.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Posts: 742 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd have been far more impressed if you had 'noted' my suggestion that you up your game. But I completely understand that continuing to feed at the bottom is the easier option.



  • Posts: 742 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The "old thread" is back to life because the case that caused it to be opened over three years ago, has now reached the end of the road. (Unless, of course, Doofus decides to bring it to Europe, in which case it still has a very long way to run.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Maybe, maybe not. These things are never in isolation. But back in 2018 before they started building the latest fab I worked at the Leixlip site and one of the topics of dining hall talk was how the ongoing planning issues was a handicap in the context of internal corporate politics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,605 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    You stated that nothing went in his favour but that's not entirely true. His objective was to object, delay and frustrate which he did a very good job of.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    What did he delay? Who did he frustrate?


    In my opinion the answers are: nothing and no one. The new fab is being built on the schedule Intel decided. He achieved nothing, beyond over turning the initial CPO.


    if he had actually delayed the new fab it would be going somewhere else and not being built in Ireland. Which would be an absolutely atrocious result for Ireland.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?



    I left Intel in 2018 after 18 years, so I can state pretty confidently that most of the canteen talk is pure nonsense. I’ve never experienced a place like Intel Ireland for rumour or conjecture. About 1 in 100 rumours are true.


    The Intel fab in Germany was never going to Ireland. Ireland struggle to staff and supply stable power to the fabs they have. Added to that they couldn’t get enough construction staff or material to build another fab in Ireland. The specialists need to build a fab are available in Germany because of Global foundries in Dresden, Intel will also poach their staff for engineers and technicians. Same reason they’re building a fab near Cincinnati Ohio, plenty of labour available, TSMC are building in Arizona and competing for staff.


    Somewhere, way below the actual practical reasons not to choose Ireland, perception may play a part, except that the head of the Fab/Sort Manufacturing group is Irish.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    You admitted it yourself in post #826. Plans had to be changed.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    You’re the one saying he won. Yet you can’t tell me anything he achieved. What did he stop or even slow down? Who did he frustrate or delay?


    I want you to back these claims up. You’ve made them, try to actually back them up with something.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Can you point out where I said he won?

    I'm stating that TR succeeded in his objectives to delay and frustrate Intel during the planning process. Plans had to be changed and revised and resubmitted which were all part of the tactics.

    Personally I couldn't give two hoots about one farmer in the arsehole of nowhere to me in Kildare or Intel either. I'm merely disagreeing with you saying nothing went in his favour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Well someone sounds a bit bitter. If you want land, you can buy it. There are no restrictions on ownership and it is a free market. If you want it but are too poor to buy it, then you have to accept that Reid is not responsible for your life choices and work ethic (or lack thereof)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    His objective since day one stretches far beyond just delaying and frustrating the company - obviously good from his perspective in and of themselves but ultimately it is still being built throughout his latest appeals so largely ineffective these past few years. He justifiedly blames them for the stress and difficulties he's experienced since initiating his 1st case, which are all well documented and undoubtedly do have evidence. He blames them for a litany of enviromental issues none of which have had any foundation of supports.

    He wants the company gone, so from his perspective I'd expect that he sees this ruling as a loss.

    Will he appeal to the EU though? Thats the real question for me and it remains to be seen, but I wouldn't put it past him. He, or someone around him, appears to have deep pockets.

    Post edited by Call me Al on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    No. He does this all himself. He does not have a legal team. He is self educated on the laws and procedures around the issue of concern.

    It figures, since by the looks of it, this is his main pursuit in life for the past few years and devotes most of his time to it. As others have said, his farm is to be honest, a shambles and barely functioning. I suspect he does just the bare minimum to be able to claim the grant payments. Another cute hurr move there

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    Going by the initial rambling handwritten letter he used as his first objection to Kildare CC he isn't preparing submissions and documents for court himself, and he certainly isn't representing himself in front of any judge so he has to have a legal team.

    But yes he clearly spends much of his time doing his research as he doesn't seem to spend too much time in his day farming.



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