18 to 25 year olds - Must carry ID

ogy · 03-11-2003 04:56AM

In summary

- the guards are kunts
- the bouncers are kunts
- the club owners are kunts
- the state are kunts (i know i know grammar bunnies)

The good people of the world who like to have the craic have always and will always get pissed on by the arseholes who run the show. theres no answers, you know that if a bouncer doesnt want to let you in (and im sure they decide the minute they look at you) hes not gonna. He can say whatever he wants "youve no id", "you dont have he right id", "theres a dress code", "your ears are too big", "aliens only tonite buddy". And you know that you wont be bothered going to the guards or court over it, cos its just too much hassle and theyll always take thumpy mcthumperson the bouncer's word over yours anyway cos as soon as you take a sip of your first pint your word is no longer valid. So theres just no point getting pissed off about it, Anticraic McDowell and the Joykill Krew will always win, so we just have to prove to them that no matter what they do, WE WILL GET LOCKED, if we have to resort to making moonshine out of soap and turnips (mmm).

PS i know this is prolly fairly controversial but i reckon itd be sad if the tradition of underage drinking from around 16 upwards died out, from drinking cans of stonehouse in the field behind your gaff to offering id with holograms of dragons on them ("hello, do u accept official wizards id?") going on the piss between the ages of 16-18 yielded some of the funniest and most memorable times of my life

lodgepole · 03-11-2003 12:01PM

He can say whatever he wants "youve no id", "you dont have he right id", "theres a dress code", "your ears are too big", "aliens only tonite buddy".

No he can't. The ID one is the only one acceptable by law. Public houses cannot have a dress code. If he says any of those things to you, get the equality officer and the phone and pocket €2,000. Do not pass Go.

DMT · 03-11-2003 12:19PM

Originally posted by Lodgepole
If he says any of those things to you, get the equality officer and the phone and pocket €2,000.

Tell me more about the pocketing €2000 part....

ogy · 03-11-2003 01:15PM

my point was that i know its not right by law but it happens, and from reading this post i guess you cant go to the equality officer anymore youd have to go to court which is expensive and time consuming. And as I said the bouncer would probably come out ahead as your word generally means nothing against theres. These are people who get away with beating the heads of people every week, theyre not gonna get in trouble for saying they dont like your shoes. After a run in with a bouncer one night (about a year ago) a guard outside the palace admitted to me that in reality he had absolutely no power when it came to clubs and said he couldnt do anything (in the palace you had to walk out the front onto the steps and then back in the other door to go to the cloak room at the end of the night, so when i walked out onto the steps a bouncer told me to get off the steps, i explained i was about to get my jacket, and he still refused to let me in, i argued with him for a while about it then he pushed me down the steps, i met a guard outside and told him what happened and the guard said he couldnt do anything, he said i could go to the station the next day and lodge a complaint but nothing would come of it in reality)
PS i know begrudgers reading this are gonna say i was drunk and starting hassle but for what its worth i was fairly sober and very polite when talking to the bouncer and the guard

davil · 03-11-2003 01:31PM

You tell 'em ogy. It's a disgrace to our country. The worst thing about law is you can't even claim ignorance. None of my mates know about this really and watching and listening to news all the time just aint my thing. I did hear something about this law but it should be more widely explained.

I'm 21 and there ain't no way I'm paying them b*st*rds any more money for an ID. If I get fined I'll make it my business to burn down the Dáil.

Fire - It's yer only man.

davil · 03-11-2003 01:32PM

That was a joke by the way. The fire bit

lodgepole · 03-11-2003 01:34PM

The Gardai have no power over who is let into a club, clubs can have whatever rules they want. The bouncer, however, committed assault and was also keeping your jacket from you, both of which the Guard had plenty of power over.

I've had several run ins with bouncers, most notably "Shane the friendly Red Box bouncer" who is an absolute **** I might add.

If a bouncer does something you think is illegal there are two things you can do. Get the police involved straight away so that your complaint is official, or ask the bouncer to get the manager. If he refuses, ring the manager. You'd be surprised how often this works. Managers often don't know the kind of behaviour their door staff are taking part in.

ogy · 03-11-2003 01:47PM

i said both those things to the guard and he said he still couldnt do anything about it and made sure i moved on from the outside of the club. i did go back later however and got talking to the manager but he just said id have to wait until all the other jackets had been collected then i could get mine (this was about 1.30am, i got my jacket about 2 hours later )
anyway all this is besides the point, my point was just that whatever the law is it doesnt usually get put into practise cos guards are not interested in helping. i said to the guard that it was sad that a bouncer from a club had more power than an officer of the law and the guard threatened to arrest me for insulting him! I guarantee any guard you talk to (especially immediately after it happens) will just tell you to move along and stop annoying the club owners or else the old "make a complaint in your local station about it tomorrow" and if you ask them
most of them will tell u this is pointless. Fair play to anyone who sticks it to the man and all but i reckon the odds are against us

dabofoppo · 03-11-2003 02:04PM

if it's not mandatory to carry a garda ID, how can the offos ask for one?
in lucan this old bastard keeps asking for one every time i walk in, and i show him my passport, and have the same argument once a week! and here's the funny part... you have to bring in your passport to the station if you want the card.

smeg.
that's about it
S_M_E_G...

K2 · 03-11-2003 02:09PM

Shador, sorry but its you who has missed the point. The discussion up to that point was not about the legal drinking age but about 25yos having to carry id. At that stage it had not been made clear that the law only applied to 18-21yo. Try reading slowly

lodgepole · 03-11-2003 03:19PM

Originally posted by ogy
i said both those things to the guard and he said he still couldnt do anything about it and made sure i moved on from the outside of the club. i did go back later however and got talking to the manager but he just said id have to wait until all the other jackets had been collected then i could get mine (this was about 1.30am, i got my jacket about 2 hours later )
anyway all this is besides the point, my point was just that whatever the law is it doesnt usually get put into practise cos guards are not interested in helping. i said to the guard that it was sad that a bouncer from a club had more power than an officer of the law and the guard threatened to arrest me for insulting him! I guarantee any guard you talk to (especially immediately after it happens) will just tell you to move along and stop annoying the club owners or else the old "make a complaint in your local station about it tomorrow" and if you ask them
most of them will tell u this is pointless. Fair play to anyone who sticks it to the man and all but i reckon the odds are against us

Ah ok, I had misunderstood you slightly then.

One thing i've found over the years is that knowing the law is hugely important. This is going off topic, but we have more rights when it comes to the police then most people know. You can comment on their proffesional behaviour, take their name/number, photograph them... The Gardai know this and you have to let them know that you know it too.

The reason being, that they are responsible for their actions. Something that bouncers are not and that is why bouncers get away with the kind of behaviour that many of them do.

Stark · 03-11-2003 03:19PM

25 - christ. It's so getting to the totalatarian stage, it won't be long before ID cards are mandatory across the board. I know when I get hassled by guards in town (usually just for taking an erratic route somewhere, god it so reminds me of the pedestrians getting arrested in Fahrenheit 451), they often ask for my ID card (or grab it out of my pocket while they "search me for drugs").

Can't wait till they start branding people with biochips, then we could probably refuse them on religious grounds (mark of the beast), although that would be admitting you believe in Book of Revelation stuff and apparently that deems you a potential terrorist in the good ol' USA.

LFCFan · 03-11-2003 03:36PM

I really wish they'd get their arse in gear and start issuing the new Credit Card style Drivers Licences. It's rediculous that they're still in the same form they are.

Stark · 03-11-2003 04:23PM

Sir I notice you're in violation of the new Fianna Fail laws regarding crossing of hands when steering. Swipe here please, ka-ching. Oops did I say that last part out loud?

Peace · 03-11-2003 04:58PM

Originally posted by LFCFan
I really wish they'd get their arse in gear and start issuing the new Credit Card style Drivers Licences. It's rediculous that they're still in the same form they are.

Thats a fact....rediculous is the right way to decribe it alright....

cournioni · 03-11-2003 05:06PM

Jesus Christ lads it's only 6 feckin € (and this is coming from a Cavan man BTW). You can afford to go on the internet and post all day but yet you are not willing to pay €6 for an ID.

I think the law is dead right, but I do think that people should get warnings for not having their ID first and then after maybe three warnings they would get fined (I'm not too sure if this applies to the new law). But you cannot have children hanging around a pub getting pissed off their heads and all that. I know its the publicans fault for serving them but then again the publican might not be serving them. Their friends might buy the drink for them, which is often the case. So the Guards cannot take any chances.

LFCFan · 03-11-2003 05:12PM

if young wans and young fellas wanna get drink then they'll get it. Half the problem is that kids that are causing the problems are in estates where the adults couldn't give a rats arse what they're kids are up to. I've driven through certain estates and there's kids sitting on the corners drinking cans of Bud. In clear view in the middle of the day. Ok, I used to be at it myself when I was young but at least I did it in a field somewhere in case I got caught. Kids these days get away with murder so I think ID cards alone are not gonna solve the problem. Hefty fines for Pubs and Offies for selling to minors and hefty fines for people caught buying drink for minors and hefty fines for parents who's kids are caught drinking. Hit people where it hurts, in the pocket, and you will see a change in attitude towards young people drinking. The attitude to drink in Ireland is dangerous!

Kone · 03-11-2003 05:17PM

Originally posted by LFCFan
The attitude to drink in Ireland is dangerous!

I wholeheartedly agree!

Anyways I didn't think I would get this volume of replies.....

gobby · 03-11-2003 05:19PM

surely these laws already exits, LFCfan. probably not implimented though.

LFCFan · 03-11-2003 05:25PM

Originally posted by gobby
surely these laws already exits, LFCfan. probably not implimented though.

The laws are there and not only are they hardly ever implemented but the fines are a joke. My local Offie got fined €100 for selling drink to a minor. fines like that are hardly gonna put them off. Bet if they were fined €5000 they would think twice about selling drink to a minor again.

lodgepole · 03-11-2003 05:27PM

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
Jesus Christ lads it's only 6 feckin € (and this is coming from a Cavan man BTW). You can afford to go on the internet and post all day but yet you are not willing to pay €6 for an ID.

I think the law is dead right, but I do think that people should get warnings for not having their ID first and then after maybe three warnings they would get fined (I'm not too sure if this applies to the new law). But you cannot have children hanging around a pub getting pissed off their heads and all that. I know its the publicans fault for serving them but then again the publican might not be serving them. Their friends might buy the drink for them, which is often the case. So the Guards cannot take any chances.

This thread isn't about young people drinking or about older people being too cheap to fork over €6 for an ID.

It's about those of us who are legally allowed to drink, and who have several documents to prove it, being asked to pay for yet another ID.

As several people have said, even passports aren't legally valid as ID anymore. I know two people who were refused service in Tesco despite having a passport on them.

LFCFan · 03-11-2003 05:35PM

Originally posted by Lodgepole
This thread isn't about young people drinking or about older people being too cheap to fork over €6 for an ID.

It's about those of us who are legally allowed to drink, and who have several documents to prove it, being asked to pay for yet another ID.

As several people have said, even passports aren't legally valid as ID anymore. I know two people who were refused service in Tesco despite having a passport on them.

In fairness, this is usually because the person serving is mentally deficient. Passports are the most official ID's in the world. You can't fake them unless paying a lot of money and you're hardly gonna do that for a few tins of Bud. I was refused in America once even with my passport but when I asked for the manager he apologised for his assistants stupidity.

Kone · 03-11-2003 05:39PM

Originally posted by Lawnkiller
teh law says:

guess that leave me out of that one...

*source: the 2003 intoxicating liquor act

Nice link

lodgepole · 03-11-2003 05:42PM

Originally posted by LFCFan
In fairness, this is usually because the person serving is mentally deficient. Passports are the most official ID's in the world. You can't fake them unless paying a lot of money and you're hardly gonna do that for a few tins of Bud. I was refused in America once even with my passport but when I asked for the manager he apologised for his assistants stupidity.

It's actually law. A driver's license or Garda ID are the only two forms of ID that a licensed premises have to ask for. If you have either of them, they cannot refuse service based on your ID. Any other form is at their discretion.

Sangre · 03-11-2003 05:43PM

Garda id's are much easier to fake then passports, in fact I've never seen/heard of someone using a fake passport (and working).
Garda id are great for underage drinkers (only just 18 recently), basically they are easy to get, a photocopied false birth cert and a fake usit, done. Usually the guards dont care, or think that people wont have the balls to do it. Also the photo is of shockingly poor quality, anyone who have looks like you can use it* because it is a low res scan. I have a Chinese friend, whatever the reason, either his skin colour or the light, you could not see his face, and he still can use it.

*I myself used a friend's garda id for ages successfully, never failed.

Tbh, having to carry id between 18-20 is quite stupid and I cant see this doing anything at all. If you want drink you can get it *easily*

LFCFan · 03-11-2003 05:59PM

Originally posted by Lodgepole
It's actually law. A driver's license or Garda ID are the only two forms of ID that a licensed premises have to ask for. If you have either of them, they cannot refuse service based on your ID. Any other form is at their discretion.

It may be law but it's probably a given that Passports should be accepted. If a premises refuses you with a passport then they are just being assholes.

lodgepole · 03-11-2003 06:14PM

Originally posted by LFCFan
It may be law but it's probably a given that Passports should be accepted. If a premises refuses you with a passport then they are just being assholes.

I fully agree... Was just saying...

IgnatiusJRiley · 03-11-2003 06:26PM

In all fairness, whether or not you're served shouldn't depend on age. It should depend on personality, e.g. don't EVER serve skangers no matter what age they are.

LFCFan · 03-11-2003 06:31PM

Originally posted by IgnatiusJRiley
In all fairness, whether or not you're served shouldn't depend on age. It should depend on personality, e.g. don't EVER serve skangers no matter what age they are.

Here Here!! Pity there's no such thing as a personality card. Skangers need not apply, just like under 18's need not apply for an age card

smiaras · 04-11-2003 11:34AM

This post has been deleted.

18 to 25 year olds - Must carry ID

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