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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭rogber


    Careful posting such sensible comments, you'll be quickly labelled a Kremlin agent.

    Indeed, not just Ireland, what are France and, say, Spain doing? Seems the main militarily help is from US and UK, who are always happy to join a war that suits them, and the Eastern Europeans, who have good reason to fear Russia.

    The situation is far more complex than the emotional mud slinging of posters here would ever concede



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The fifth largest arms exporter in the world is out of weapons bar scraps it found from the 80s.


    A German arms exporter said it would give equipment for free if Berlin approved. Berlin naturally didn't approve.


    They are charlatans.


    Germany may well have a deal done with an eye on the longer term and post war settlement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Afair they expelled a token number from the embassy (4).

    I did see there was some coordination around the EU when this happened and I noticed several other countries, not even large ones, were expelling them in blocks of 10-20 or so. Russia sent 2 home from the Irish embassy in retaliation afterwards.

    Other countries sent more packing after evidence of the Russian atrocities in parts of N. of Ukraine they occupied emerged.

    I speculate the worry is if Ireland even expel too many (not go so far as to close it...), the Russians might just close down the Irish embassy completely. So it is fear of the negative consequences driving it, as always with these things. But of course it is only Germans who think this way (about how to respond to Russia's invasion) we are told.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The Germans have been dealing with a growing far right problem for the last 25 + years,and by all accounts sponsored by outside forces aka the Kremlin,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,355 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Wouldn't it be marvellous if someone blew up nordstream 1 and nordstream 2



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,105 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "Ukraine gave such resistance to the invaders that military mercenaries from the Caucasus refuse to go to warAbout

    this is evidenced by the private correspondence of the invader from Dagestan.

    In a conversation with his friend, he refuses to participate "in the special operation", because the losses are huge, including among the Kadyrovites.

    "Our hundreds of people have fallen from somewhere, and they have already sat down. Kadyrovtsev so lodge. Grazhdansky skolko killed in this war," he writes to his friend.

    At the same time, he understands that Russia does not care about the death of Caucasians: "Rusakas use us, delayut everything with our hands."

    The occupier admits that he himself would have abandoned everything and went home, but is afraid that he will "be imprisoned for desertion." Tom wants to save at least a friend.

    "This is not our war! Let mermaids, esli nado, themselves are at war! Sit quietly," the occupier emphasizes."

    Operational APU


    Chechens not too happy it seems. The Ukrainians even discovered some recently killed were Libyan mercenaries. The Orcs looking for barrels they can scrape.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭20silkcut



    We are in fog of war territory here. It would be far worse to have a chaotic Germany at the heart of Europe at this time. The optics are atrocious no doubt but we are not privy the full details of what informs their policy right now. Germany has been caught with its pants down with regard to its dependence on Russia. They really have been caught blindsided and were tone deaf to the threat from Putin. Their politicians are not great communicators either and I’m sure there is a certain amount of face saving going on for their utter stupidity of the last 10 years. In times of war countries do callous things even when they are on the right side. Germany could thrash their economy now and next thing we have something on our hands that makes Ukraine look like a picnic in 6 months or a years time. Germany cutting off Russian gas would be like a heroin addict going cold Turkey. Worse probably. It’s quite possible Putin has back channelled to the Germans that any increase in weapons sent will result in restricted supply. The countries that are sending the most weapons U.K./USA are the ones he has least hold over in that regard. This war is an unbelievable damning of Eu energy policy of the past ten years. We even had this beamed into our homes every Wednesday night with Gazprom plastered all over champions league coverage and we lapped it up unquestioning. It used always give me a chill when I saw it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    How does that work for Russia?

    They demand to be let back into the worlds economy and to freely trade with everyone or else they threaten to use nuclear weapons against the west? I really don't see that as being a successful negotiation tactic. They would just be told to get stuffed and sanctions remaining in place until they learn to play nicely, or they get told that they can rejoin the civilised world once they drop their nuclear arsenal.

    Using nuclear weapons on Ukraine won't get Putin a seat back at the table, it will get him an even bloodier nose and being told to sit on the naughty step for even longer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,105 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    No loss, but as I have said before, embassies don't actually do much for individuals in trouble.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick



    Well the threat worked in preventing Nato/US boots on the ground now. And it's prevented closing the airspace.


    it will get him an even bloodier nose and being told to sit on the naughty step for even longer.


    Like many others on here, I'm of the opinion that the West will still not intervene directly if Putin were to launch a tactical nuke at a non-Nato country. That will make those on here who are concerned only for their own backs very happy. But the bottom line is that Putin becomes more emboldened by the reluctance of the West to intervene. He's a loose cannon who could turn to chemical or nuclear resources at any time, regardless or not of whether anyone "provokes" him.

    We should have set a precedent on day one and sent the troops in. It wouldn't have been invading Russia, it would simply have been defending Ukraine on their own territory. But that's all by the way now.

    I don't believe anyone can predict what's in Putin's mind, but I do believe the day will come when we will have no choice but to call his bluff.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    This could yet bring down the German Govt.


    A key Green politician putting out some hard hitting statements.


    "What I can't stand at all: The clumsy attempt to fool the public into believing that you represent an EU-wide unified position and that everything else is going it alone, when in reality it's exactly the other way around and Germany is far and wide alone. "


    He goes on to say Germany are weakening the EU, driving division, that Scholz is arrogant etc etc.

    Lot of key Greens backing him on it.


    We'll see a very brutal incident yet, the German Govt will equivocate again, fight the idea of new sanctions and the Greens will walk.

    Presumably the next Govt would be the Soc Dem Party and the CDU, hardly bad news for Putin.


    Even just bringing down the Govt there will be a blow to Putin as the election distracts his supporters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The death toll will have gone up, not down.


    There is plenty of blood on the Chancellor's hands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Has anyone read this

    https://meaninginhistory.substack.com/p/talking-about-war-monetary-political?s=r

    The writer hates biden and discusses Mercouris (euggh!) However, the article raises lots of relevant points. Is the Western alliance going to lose. We have so much debt whereas Russia does not. The over 80% of the world's population that is not siding with the USA do not need us, at all.

    Russia - food fertilizer, oil,raw materials

    India - services

    China - manufacturing, tech

    We don't do as much in the west anymore and the USA does not seem to be doing so well. Are we actually destroying ourselves? Will lack of fertilizer/ Ukraine/ inflation result in famine?

    I personally feel very sorry for the people suffering in Ukraine and abroad due to this war but am on the fence between two narratives as I don't know which is correct.

    Are we actually destroying our civilization which is so supply chain dependent? If so, what can we do to save ourselves and help Ukraine?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    But that still isn't getting sanctions lifted or any international trade happening, or buying of oil or gas. Maybe the west doesn't get involved militarily, but they also definitely won't be getting involved economically.

    Threatening the west with nuclear weapons doesn't get them to trade with you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,818 ✭✭✭threeball


    Any irish passport holder still in Russia doesn't deserve any consular support. If you want to live in that dump in that company then don't expect the Irish public to pay for it. The Russian embassy in Dublin should be seized, sold and the funds used to cover the costs of refugees



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,770 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Yeah and on top of that Im disappointed that the Biden administration isn't publicly calling the German govt out on their intransigent response to the war. Im sure they are in the background but they should be making the point publicly that Russia is on the edges of the EU and that Germany has a responsibility to stand up to them.

    Like is the German government on the side of freedom and democracy or are they not, thats the black and white choice here when it is Ukraine who are suffering devastating consequences and war crimes on their population. The largest economy in the EU cant just sit this one out and hope it blows over to keep the gas flowing all while the UK and US are doing the majority of the heavy lifting in supplying weapons to Ukraine.

    In the space of just a few short weeks the German govt. really have thrashed 30 years of soft power and consensus building in the EU by showing that when it really matters that they cant be relied upon. The German govt would do well to remember that there are 35,000 American troops on their soil providing them with a deterrent to Russian aggression and providing the German State with national security. The US should be publicly calling them out on their intransigence on Ukraine , they should turn the screw on them to get their act together. This is a very winnable war for Ukraine but to win it they need the fence sitters to get off the fence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick



    Maybe the west doesn't get involved militarily, but they also definitely won't be getting involved economically.

    We WOULD have got involved militarily if Putin had not raised the nuclear threat. And because of that threat 5 million people have been displaced so far. Tens of thousands have been killed. And women and babies are raped. Yet you have supreme confidence in the fact that we'll stand rigid and flatly refuse to do business with him if he made the same threat about trade.


    Threatening the west with nuclear weapons doesn't get them to trade with you.

    How do you know that? Simple answer: You don't. It's just your opinion.

    I hope you're right - we all just have to wait and see how things pan out.

    I just feel there are going to be some mighty big shocks to come - I hope I'm wrong.

    Post edited by goldenmick on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    Maybe build a quick landing and take off runway in the farthest regions of Western Ukraine.

    Roll some Migs across the border from a secret location in the EU and let the ukrainian pilots fly from there.

    Refuel Them over in the sky over EU and off they go again.

    Mad thought I know but maybe a risk worth taking as they will need air support on the Eastern front

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nobody ever died going cold turkey from heroin



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,818 ✭✭✭threeball


    Not much point having a huge supply chain and no market. It's not the market that suffers in a economic squeeze its the supply chain. The market just stops buying. The supply chain has already invested its money in order to make sure it had product for the market.

    It's just like the idea of Russia turning off the gas to Germany. Germany would suffer a minor recession. Russia on the other hand would collapse. If Germany squeezed Russia for only a couple of weeks the shock waves in Russia would derail the war and create panic even at the highest levels of society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,157 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    As far as Germany is concerned the economy is sacrosanct



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ronivek


    Are you German or have German family? You spend an awful lot of time defending their response to the war whilst simultaneously complaining about Ireland's response.

    Do you know how many Russian diplomats were even in Ireland to begin with? Is it possible that smaller countries closer to the halls of European power or to eastern Europe might tend to contain more diplomats? Or that embassies in countries with larger native Russian populations or conversely larger ethnic populations in Russia might tend to contain more diplomats? I mean there are plentiful reasons that Russia's Ireland mission would be smaller than many others in Europe and beyond.

    I mean the supreme irony here is Ireland is entirely on its own if Russia decide to bomb us into next year. We will get no more support from NATO, the EU, or any other nation than Ukraine has gotten; yet we're still siding with Ukraine, supporting their rapid accession into the EU, sending them humanitarian and military (albeit not lethal) aid (even though we have never been a belligerent in any conflict other than against our occupier), taking in their refugees, calling for Russia's expulsion from human rights bodies, and co-signing UN resolutions to try and apply pressure on Russia.

    And there sits Germany, smack bang in the middle of Europe and EU, surrounded on all sides by numerous air defence systems and ships, a member of NATO, stores nuclear weapons for use by NATO, 3rd largest standing army in the EU, 2nd largest yearly defence budget in the EU, 4th largest arms exporter in the world, was a belligerent in two world wars over the last century and a bit; and it won't even let its massive arms industry sell outdated vehicles to Ukraine.

    If you still want to argue that somehow Germany and Ireland are "just the same" then I don't even know what to say to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,818 ✭✭✭threeball


    Yes it is and always has been. They shoved us under the bus to save themselves in 2008. Now they're throwing the Ukrainians under it and reversing over them just to be sure. The French and Germans have done more damage to the EU in their response to this war than all shenanigans that went on through the banking crisis and covid. They're a disgrace and the rest of Europe should let them know it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭maebee


    If I, as an Irish passport holder, had been living and working in Russia, on February 24th I would have started getting my affairs in order and made a plan to leave that cesspit of a country asap. If I had any wobbles about my decision, Putin's nuclear threat within that week would have sealed it for me. I can't see how any Westerner, or any right -thinking person would live there. I know there's family issues etc. but as an Irish passport holder I would have the entitlement to get my family to Ireland. The innocent citizens of Ukraine didn't have the choice that I would have had.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Not mad at all, I think it's the kind of thinking that will swing it for Ukraine. Play Putin at his own game - "sure we're only selling them fuel, this is the safest way as we didn't want to offend you"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    In other news, Germany is threatening to invade Ireland. « Too many Nazis on boards.ie posting willy-nilly anti-German rhetoric ». Or as the Germans actually said « villy-nilly »



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ronivek


    So if an Irish citizen has married into a Russian family, has all their money tied up in Russia, has their home there, their kids and their friends, their livelihoods... they're just supposed to drop it all, move back to Ireland with no money and.... do what? Stay in a hotel? Homeless shelter? Wait until they can sell their house in roubles and then... what? Exchange it how for Euros? How are they to send the money to Ireland so they can afford anything?

    Aside from anything else closing the embassy does nothing concrete to Russia; it just sends a political message. We've already done that via the UN, the EU, by expelling diplomats.

    The Irish government is charged with protecting Irish citizens and that includes citizens abroad in all kinds of circumstances. Arguing to withdraw that support and leave them potentially isolated just because they can't easily leave Russia immediately is utterly ridiculous.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    The nuclear threat was already there. It didn't need Putin to make any declaration, just the fact that it was Russia meant that NATOs hands were tied. Just the same as if it was China going into Taiwan.

    But no one has ever opened up friendly trade deals with someone else because they are having a gun, or nuclear weapons, pointed at them. You may trade with them despite the threat of violence, or war, but not because of.

    The west started trading increasingly with Russia after the fall of the USSR, even though they had nuclear weapons, not because Russia was threatening war but because of the potential for peace. By Russia starting a war the trade that had built up over the last 30 years has all been wiped out and isn't coming back anytime soon, certainly not if Russia is threatening the west.



This discussion has been closed.
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