External Insulation question

gooner99 hi

If the “Insulation Experts” do not move the windows and external doors out to the new external insulation, the concrete block walls between the frames and Insulation will form a cold bridge. This cold bridge will have a high U Value and cause heat loss at these junctions.

This cold bridge could also cause Surface Condensation on the surface of the internal walls around the frames.

See Sketch of a Cavity Block Wall:-

Does anyone know - what Insulation Experts trained these “new” SEAI “Insulation Experts”

Heat will flow out - and the cold will flow in at the concrete cills. Concrete Cills:- Cold Bridge and Condensation.

The cavity in the op's case was pumped, so it's obviously not a 'cavity block' wall.

Ive yet to see any contractors remove the windows and doors to allow for fitting of external insulation.Yes it would be a better method but retrofitting is about being pragmatic and aiming for the best results reasonably possible.One of the benefits of external insulation is that you do not affect internal finishes .Removing windows and doors would conflict with this.

As the wall is cavity wall ,you can ask the fitters to remove the external reveals and fit a thinner insulation to the reveals.This will also allow for masonry to window frame sealing and help to achieve the best possible result.

That was a disaster then, and you say that the SEAI and Local Authorities are blaming the West Coast. They forgot to include “Once Upon a Time in a land far far away (in the West)” 😂😂😂😂.

I witnessed many of these disasters inland in the south.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the location of these debacles. I presume from the statement above that the SEAI and the Local Authorities were the instigators of these terrible debacles using Cheap Cowboy “Insulation Experts” supervisor by their own “Experts” - Delboy and Trotters Trading Company, Peckham, Paris and Dublin - no money back, no guarantee - You couldn’t make this up!.

Building Science:-

The purpose of a cavity, in a cavity constructed wall - is to prevent moisture getting in to the inner concrete block leaf above the DPC, and they function perfectly.

When a Cavity is filled in these walls, the insulation will fill the wet/damp cavity below the DPC (Damp Proof Course) which is usually 225 mm below the DPC. Some of the cheap wool (unapproved) insulation are porous (similar to the wick in an oil lamp). Damp/ moisture /water is very intelligent and must get in to this insulation and must travel up above the DPC and will then soak in to the very porous internal concrete block inner leaf, and will evaporate on the surface of the internal plaster in the form of efflorescent salts. Some of this dampness will also evaporate through the external leaf of the wall. This process will never stop until the incorrect cavity fill insulation is removed. Fitting External Wall Insulation will not prevent the dampness from below the DPC from causing dampness / efflorescent salts on the inside of the wall.

Every time these salts are cleaned off and the wall repainted, the dampness will always reoccur until the incorrect insulation is completely removed from the cavity.

I got a quote for a client about a year ago to remove the fill from a cavity in a bungalow and it was €5,000.

Fitting EWI (External Wall Insulation) on these walls will exacerbate the internal dampness because the moisture is now prevented from escaping externally. So now ALL the rising dampness in the cavity insulation can now only escape through the internal wall of the cavity.

The untold damage this causes and the mental stress of home owners and their families and their relationship is unimaginable.

All of this is not Rocket Science - it’s Building Science.

Minister Ryan and Minister Darragh and all their Departments may all be “Experts” in this, especially when there are over 2 million homes in England with these terrible problems [I wonder are all of these homes on the West Coast of the UK]. Of course all the “Expert Insulation” Companies are gone with their 50 year guarantee.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-10390579/amp/Botched-cavity-wall-insulation-ruining-homes-causing-damp-mould.html

Of course many of our “Expert Insulation Plonkers” have been “Reskilled” and “Upskilled” by FAS Experts. (They haven’t gone away you know).

Another disaster like Mica and Pyrite disasters on the way, except this one is scripted by our Government.

How can people all over Europe, Sweden, Poland, Finland, ... , ... Germany, Ukraine ...insulate their properties for decades successfully

And Ireland and the UK , end up reinventing the wheel and doing it wrong ???????????????

boomer99

In Cavity constructed walls - the windows and external doors should be moved out in to the EWI.

Thanks for the sound advice.

It's a minefield out there.

The building regs on this need to be enforced and people need proper training and skills to do this retrofitting correctly.

It's a tragedy, especially so soon after the last boom and bust. And it's not for lack of money. The government has had years to prepare for this, and they are acting like rabbits in the headlights mode always. And we are going to spend billions creating more problems.

"There is a huge shortage of Qualified Craftsperson in Ireland because Minister Quinn removed / closed down many Apprenticeship Courses in the Institutes of Technology in 2001-02. (Irish Accountability)"

Why did this happen during a construction boom ?

Nuts.

And nothing to replace it ???

gooner99

mean to ask you on my last reply- do you understand my reply. Does it answer your question.

hooner99

Thank you for your kind comments.

Your list is copied below

1. External wall insulation.

YES FIRST

2. New low threshold front door, replacement footpaths all round, replace/redo waste gullys, Steps/ramp and rails.

YES.

CAN THE NEW EXTERNAL DOOR BE FITTED OUT TO MEET THE NEW EWI

The best order of works I was thinking....

1. New front door. (To allow for ewi to be installed on reveals).

YES

2. EWI.

YES. FITTED DOWN AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.AND THE FOOTPATHS AND RAMPS FITTED UP AGAIN THE EWI

SOME EWI MUST BE FITTED ON BOTH EXTERNAL REVEALS AND THE SOFFIT REVEAL OF ALL WINDOWS AND EXT DOORS.

THE WINDOWS CILLS MUST ALSO BE INSULATED

3. Replacement footpaths all round, replace/redo waste gullys, steps/ramp and rails. (To allow for ewi to be installed without steps/ramps being in the way, thus giving a greater ewi coverage. Rails not having to be refitted/ adjusted).

STEPS AND RAMPS MUST COMPLY WITH THE BUILDING REGULATIONS

ENSURE THE ATTIC VENTILATION IN THE SOFFIT IS NOT REDUCED.

gooner99

Yes, remove all footpaths that you need / wish to be replaced, and fit the XPS insulation down as low as is possible below the floor level.

The material used below ground level should specifically be certified for that purpose.

All materials have Certification. Request and read copies for all materials, before any works commence.

The below DPC and below ground insulation must be a ‘closed cell’ or ‘single mono cell’ construction. This means that all the tiny minute cells in the material are not connected to the adjoining cells. The material is impervious. (opposite to porous).

One other very important issue - make the EWI contractors cover all your existing window frames and All panes of glazing before commencement. The Contractor should do this with Glass and Window Protection Self-Adhesive Film:-

This should be used on all windows and external doors on ALL building sites.

If this protection is not used the Glazing will be scratched and the contractor will state that the scratches were there before they commenced.

Scratched glazing cannot be repaired and will need to be replaced.

Hi

Thanks for your comments

I always recommend Internal insulation

300 mm of fibreglass insulation resting on the ceiling slabs is perfect.

Ensure every hole/ gap in the ceiling is filled:-

1. Holes around pipes passing through the ceiling of the hot press
2. Make the attic access door airtight
3. Holes around where the wires pass through the ceiling to pendant lights

The walls should be dry with no rising dampness

Fix approximately 70 mm slab with insulation (or thicker if you wish).

Fit insulated slabs to the internal reveals and Soffit of doors and windows opes, - whatever max thickness will fit.

If there are concrete block internal walls (perpendicular to external walls) and built in to the external walls, fit slabs with at least 25 mm insulation on these internal walls.

If other internal walls plaster is not perfect- then fix 12 mm slabs on these walls.

You can do 1 room at a time to suit budget and accommodation needs.

Double glazing is also important.

Burning logs is fine, with well insulated walls and ceilings- the rooms will stay warmer for longer periods of time, because there will be less heat loss.

Thermal Mass ? Where is it when you insulate all walls internally and 300 mm in ceiling.