Russia - threadbanned users in OP

There is no freedom of speech on privately owned forums, there is a need for discussion, posting about Ukraine being neutral or not with literally no other comments is looking for a reaction from others with absolutely nothing to discuss. It would be as relevant as me winding you up about londongrad and the tories being bosom buddies with the russians and now using Ukraine to deflect attention from their own complete and incompetent failings.

Indeed, there has been a huge change of tone in the last 24 hours. Lots of threats to the US and NATO in general and talk of full scale "war".

The interesting thing though is the Russian public know full well the regime has been lying about what happened to the Moskva. The account the Kremlin gave was so ridiculous and far fetched that that even their own people knew it was BS.

I don't disagree with you but Merkel and the German Govts of the last 25 years decided to hand over the key reins of the German economy to a dictatorship that was openly hostile to Europe, democracy and they personally did well out of it. The German economy profited off of it.

The problem is that Russia will use the leverage Mutti and co. sold them over all of Europe and against the Ukraine.

It's better to bite the bullet now, rather than have gas cut off in September.

The damage is now inevitable, excision now reduces the leverage Russia has. It affords time to adapt. The approach of Berlin is appeasement and minimizing sanction will buy peace today, dead Ukrainians aren't accountable on a ledger.

Sell your soul to the devil, expect to get burnt.

Ireland and Europe must force Germany to stop letting Putin threaten the entire economy of Western Europe.

Maybe this is the special operation they are really referring to in Ukraine. The ultimate grift where they steal every penny available to their entire army. It would be fitting for a country run by crooks.

Today also marked the first confirmed use of a Russian strategic bomber directly over Ukraine. These are the ones who engage in "carpet bombing" style attacks like this one shown below on Mariupol.

Apart from the younger generation, I wouldnt be surprised if there is a fair degree of indifference given their govts handling of the Kursk disaster 22 years ago.

What is? If you are referring to the SAR image, that's not fire, just the false colour palette chosen to render a non optical wavelength image.

What would the Ukrainian's expectations have been I wonder when they fire the couple of Neptunes at the Moskva?

If they've never been used in combat before, then they'd be an unknown quantity. Would they have been happy with a hit and the Moskva retreating further out to sea. Or would they have expected to do enough damage to send it back to Sevastopol. It must have been a lucky hit to cause further detonations and sink it.

For more weirdness, I read last night an official Turkish denial that any of their ships were involved or rescued anyone.

Yes, I read that a smaller rescue vessel also sank when it tried to come alongside the Moskva (caught up in the explosions and fire).

Only if your hitting targets that isn't covered by air defenses ,the Americans won't fly b52s over contested airspace and live air defenses .

If the Ukrainians have s300s and or other systems flying Large bombers over cities is a bad idea ,

Chances are they took a very high altitude bomb run , but sooner or later they will get intercepted

Plus they expected the people left in Ukraine after the military build up on the borders for weeks/months would be subservient to Russia and not fight back. Any that had other views of Russia, having left west for Europe before the invasion as fearing the army. Plus again Russia is an aging demography. They needed those Ukrainian young children to be the next generation of fighters for Russia and the generation after again. There's a racist element as well and Russia value those white Ukrainians to be white Russians and probably white Siberians. Crudely breeding stock for the military.

"The storm did not allow a rescue operation from the cruiser "Moscow". Almost the entire crew was probably killed.". https://t.me/s/UkraineNow

Good result.

Here's a tip for people who would like to look at sites and sources in Ukrainian, the Microsoft Edge browser will auto translate such pages.