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Picard 2x07 - 'Monsters' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

  • 14-04-2022 7:51am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭


    Picard 2x07 - 'Monsters' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers 



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    Couldn't wait until the episode ended to post


    What a great cameo after the discussion in the general trek forum! I was struggling to place the voice for a moment!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    So, I enjoyed that more than I thought I would. Probably because the subconcious part with Picards father was far more interesting that it had right to be. The kid stuff, meh, but a better kid Picard than in TNG.

    I also said before the series came out that I hoped they wouldn't go into Q and Guinans back story. I think they mostly did that well, though the genie in a lamp stuff was too much. They nodded towards a history and gave the basics, but not too much, which I enjoyed.

    Rios immediately going "I'm a spaceman, come see my ship" was a bit stupid, but not something that Trek doesn't constantly do in the past, and to be honest I could see myself doing the same if I was trying to impress someone I had a crush on! Giving her the medical device was stupid though.

    Not much on the Jurati front. I was hoping by episode 8 we would be heading back to the future, but I don't really see how this will be done before the end of episode 9 at this stage. They just have far too many ends to tie up in this timeline. I'm somewhat annoyed at the end. Unless they do something really spectacular with it it just seems like another somewhat pointless obstacle. For a moment I was hoping that the agent was actually a different Q f**king with them, but alas no.

    Despite my quibbles, I really liked this episode. My major fear now is how they'll wrap all this up in three episodes.

    The Traveller being Laris's ancestor....yeah, not gone on that. Doesn't seem to be any particular reason why they would choose a Romulan in the first place. It would be somewhat forgiveable if she was the only identical ancestor, but with so much focus on the Soong the progenitor it's a bit much to be honet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,297 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Well that was not great. Could have worse I suppose but could have been a lot better too. All that nonsense inside Picards head made no sense at all just wasted time. Who was that interviewing him? Not Will Wheaton was it? That would be gas if he played Picards father lol.

    That bit with the back story to the guineas race and the Q was OK that was about it. I was expecting to see LA assimilated and they would have to turn it around. No such luck. Maybe next episode.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭liamtech


    This was a very interesting experience for me. When it began, i couldn't place the voice (similar to @ilovesmybrick ) - Then as it continued i came up with various theories in my head. Locutus, Picard's father is a wife-beater - etc etc etc - all of these seemed obvious, and a bit contrived. I had written the episode off in my head.

    Penny in the air - penny drops

    No that was actually superb. James Callis was excellent, great to see him. And the twist was excellent, and i didn't see it coming. And they kinda dripped it out.

    • Picard and Mommy are running away from violent father
    • Kid Picard gets his foot caught - first indication something is wrong here - mommy keeps running - My brain was twitching, and assuming wow, Picard's dad must be HORRID - but for sanity sake mom, look after your kid too!!!!
    • Father appears, (almost turned away expecting to see him smack the kid) - but no. Tender, concerned, picks picard up and carries him to safety
    • Then the reveal. The poor women is not well. Shes ill. And the father, seems (at least as far as we can see) to be dealing with it as best he can- and probably getting no thanks by the looks of it - i like to think that while JL blames his dad - but Robert, well. I have a nice thought that Robert loves his father deeply, empathizes with this awful situation - and that this explains Robert's life choices to emulate his dad - very emotional

    That was an emotional roller-coaster - had you described that to me before watching i would have moaned and groaned about it being silly - a waste of time in a short season.

    But that was excellent - no complaints here - well, one gripe - THE SEASON IS TOO SHORT

    Im glad they included this, but wish we have 13 episodes - so much more to cover and 4 episodes left

    OF COURSE we have Strange New worlds in a mere 3 weeks too! Much to look forward to! I still cant fathom how Picard can be awesome, SNW can look terrific - and Discovery can be as Dull as watching a video seminar entitled 'the future of plumbing'

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    had you described that to me before watching i would have moaned and groaned about it being silly - a waste of time in a short season..

    Yup, this was almost exactly the type of episode I feared would happen after last week, and I said it in my post for the last episode. But I do think they pulled it off very well.

    The pacing is a bit off, there are some jumps that are a bit much, but I want another three episodes in the season. Not just to give space to wrap it up, but because it's enjoyable.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'll go one better, I mixed up the two doctors and thought he was the one who played Bashir. "How the f*ck can he be Picard's dad?" is a fairly mild summary of what I was thinking until I looked up imdb.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭corkie


    Alexander Siddig & James Callis do look similar. But knew it wasn't Bashir in the episode. I recognized Callis, but he has been in allot so wasn't sure where from.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,508 ✭✭✭sioda


    Right red dress and now Baltar the BSG vibes can't get any stronger.


    Overall not a bad episode moves the story along. How are they going to unbutterfly the visit to the ship. Had expected random Q to be summoned tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,669 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Torn on that - liked the episode for the most part (different from the typical in to the mind storylines) but just kept thinking "get on with the story, I'm here for Trek"



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,504 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    I'm quite satisfied where they went with the well worn "enter someone's mindscape" trope. They managed to reverse it nicely, twice arguably, since not only do they turn it around by revealing the mother was mentally ill (bi-polar?), but it looks like Picard actions may have led to her death or suffering as it suggests at the end.

    The thread about revealing things to the doc and her kid felt dumb though. They stick to the avoid butterflys mantra all season, then piss all over it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    My reaction to the episode: Ha! Suckers! Shoulda studied up on your 21st Century History! 😁


    My first google: OH YESSSS!!! Baltar! Of course! Damn I knew he was familiar!

    I swear, Picard's father reminded me of a cross between the most Section 31 crossover of Alexander Siddig and William Sadler! I had to google who the actor was. It nagged at the back of my head. James Callis makes total sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,026 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I knew I recognised it straight away but couldnt think who. Thought it might have been Steven Merchant but as soon as I saw a hint of the side profile my brain was screaming so much that I had to rewind the scene just to listen to the dialogue



  • Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭eadrom


    I liked that! Some awful dialog in parts and the scenes with the doctor feel a bit flat but otherwise pretty good.

    3 left (right?) and I'm still interested.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    I was the exact same when I heard the voice, thought it was Siddig initially.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭Evade


    For a delving into someone's mind episode it wasn't bad and the revelation of Picard's mother is better than the set up lead me to believe. Guinan happening to have the one and only Q summoning device stretches credulity as well as Picard happening to be caught on camera as he beamed in. Rios must have read Kirk's detailed biography and I'm sure he'll bring that up as a defence when Temporal Investigations shows up.

    Is the future safe now and the Renée Picard bit solved?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,026 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The Guinan bit was odd. It sounded like that was the only one but also that El Aurians are summoning Qs all the time. Also the whole genie in a bottle look was a bit stupid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭eadrom


    Yeah I thought Guinan was better overall in this episode but that plot device bottle was daft, or at least poorly explained. I assume/hope we're not expected to believe this is the only bottle of screaming black Q-juice but the dialog seemed to suggest it was.

    The scenes with Rios and his doctor friend were also really clunky.

    And I wish they got Stewart even just 5 years earlier. Dude is old. Like, bless him, but it's difficult to watch at times. Just left thinking that both the fictional characters and the real world production crew should give the guy a break. Some scenes are fine, plenty of others he looks and sounds like he'd rather have a nap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I initally thought Siddig had changed his screen-name again, but now I’m embarressed to find this to be one of the guys in BSG I liked the most. (God damn I’m not good with faces)

    The uniform kind of threw me off a few times. Occasionally it looked like the First Contact uniform (I spotted a blue band on the arm), then it appeared to be the early DS9 / Voyager uniform with department colour. But the lighting was really odd, so I started to think that the shoulders were grey and this was a 3rd uniform varient that was half-way between Voyager and First Contact.

    Does however look like the early DS9 / Voyager uniform, which I guess is the first reappearance of it since Voyager. I wonder why they / Picard’s mind went for that era? (We don’t know much about what happened to Picard between Generations & First Contact. Something happen there?)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭Evade


    It was more like a early DS9/Voy jumpsuit cut in First Contact/late DS9 colour scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    I initally thought Siddig had changed his screen-name again, but now I’m embarressed to find this to be one of the guys in BSG I liked the most. (God damn I’m not good with faces)

    Not the only one who did that. I initially was thinking that Siddig had aged really weirdly!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,026 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It's definitely not the Voyager uniform because that didn't have a sleeve stripe and this one had extra bits of black on the neck trim. It's just a new uniform we have never seen before that fits into that era. Could be a ground crew or station uniform as Trek has had those before or maybe just something Picard dreamed up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭corkie


    Jay Karnes who played FBI agent Martin Welles previously appeared in Star Trek: Voyager as the 29th-century time traveling Starfleet officer Ducane, but he also worked with Matalas on 12 Monkeys… as an FBI agent.

    Can't find the link but some post I read, referred to the uniform as been a confederate design?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Seems to lend some weight to my earlier pondering that this was a reference to the time between Generations and First Contact. So, this Grey-ish uniform could be an intermediate design before they went for the full on, padded grey shoulders with department colour collar. They are also suggesting that Picard's evaluation happened in his Enterprise E ready room. We never got a really good look at that room, so I guess it could be that.

    You know, if they wanted to make me a particularly happy Trekkie...a revisit of the Enterprise E wouldn't be a bad way of doing that....just saying...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Well that was very cool..

    - Callbacks to various TNG episodes with the voices in the dungeon - BOBW ("I am Locutus.."), Tapestry ("I'd rather die as the man I was than live the life I just saw"), Chain of Command ("There are 4 lights!!")

    - Two big guest stars who played great roles previously - Baltar (BSG) and Dutch (from the Shield - greatest cop drama ever imo. It would be funny if he was the same character.. Finally got his FBI job!)

    - I seem to be in the minority, but I really like the Rios bits (nice nod to the Voyage Home with the "no, I'm from x, I only work in outer space" line). He and the doc have a nice chemistry

    - Good twist with Picard's father too. Also I'm guessing that Talinn is somehow Laris before they met in the future

    - The Queen plot moving along nicely too

    Really enjoyed that one again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭Evade


    I like Rios as character this season but some of his storyline is a little generic. If we were to get a series set in the 25th century Rios on the Stargazer would have be my number one choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Yea those scenes in the first episode this season left me wanting more alright. The show finally found itself - updated but still with the classic Trek feel underneath that was missing from season 1 and Discovery never found.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,026 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Yep. After the little tease at the start I do wish we could get a bit more of a captain and his starship rather than all this time hijinks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭pah


    At the credits now. Yawn fest so far



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    I literally just finished watching the shield a couple of weeks ago.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,728 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Was a different kind of episode. It felt it worked for the most part.

    Great seen Baltar in a Trek uniform. Probably give Starfleet defence codes to the Borg lol.

    I liked the twist at the end and wrapped up most of the mom storyline.

    Did feel beaming the doc and her kid onto the ship was a bit silly. No need for it. Rios is a ships captain, why would he break all those rules?

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭Johnny Storm


    You'd think I'd know how to avoid a double post by now........

    Post edited by Johnny Storm on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭Johnny Storm


    The bottle thing was a bit much, but my least favourite part of this ep was Picard to his Da: "It's like I never really knew you" - 🙄

    On the whole, not a bad ep, not as predictable as the last 2 or 3.

    Post edited by Johnny Storm on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Plot twist: Picard was a Cylon all along. And so was Riker, and Data, and Troi. You know what, the only person who wasn’t a Cylon was Weasley :P



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,504 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    I made the mistake of watching a preview for the next episode. Don't do that. It spoils a significant character detail and callback.



  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    Taken on its own I enjoyed the episode as well but this whole season really feels like a story that would have been more satisfying as a TNG two-parter. We've got 3 episodes left and so many dangling plot threads to tie off it's going to be difficult not to feel rushed. I thought the revelation of Picard's mum was not as bad as it could have been. But the 'revelation' about his father's actions made it come across like Picard was still carrying around a small child's interpretation of what happened as a nearly 100 year old. I think it would have worked better if the reveal had come from Picard himself not Dad-Baltar. So that rationally Picard knew his mother suffered from mental illness but on an emotional level he still blamed his father.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭pah


    Well.......yes. It did come from Picard because Dad Baltar isn't real, he's in Picards head.



  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    I get that but what I really meant was for Picard to acknowledge that fact himself in the 'mindscape' rather than have Dad Baltar say it. I understand it's all part of his own mind anyway.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    I would have liked for the doctor to give out to Rios for potentially having disintegrated her and her son to beam them aboard a ship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,283 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    If Jurati had locked out the systems, how were the teleporters working?

    Dutch to bring Picard to Mackey to get him to talk?

    Now Gaius gets to be in someone's head, Thankfully he didn't bother with the red dress.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,026 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    He was always in someone's head. Caprica 6 had a "head Baltar" through out the season.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    that felt like a waste of an episode when they really dont have the time.

    If I was Picard I'd be a bit pissed that in all the years he's known guinan she never bothered to mention she could summon a Q whenever



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Although it is still watachible (but it's slipping into the kind of tedium that put me off Discovery), I do agree that they seem to be waisting a lot of time, and a bit of momentum it feels. The last 3-odd episodes could have been pared down into 1 or 2 or maybe even one if you took some stuff away. If we were mid-season in an earlier Trek show, I'd have no issue. But we *know* that a modern season is barely 10 episodes, so throwing away time seems like a mistake.

    I am concerned about how the season will end. Will we end up in the same situation as with Season 1, where the show was alright for the most past but was torpedoed by a rushed & piss-poor ending? I hope not.

    Part of my concern is fueled by the Season 3 teaser. Until that point, I had assumed that Seasons 2 & 3 would form a single more fleshed-out story with a cliffhanger on season-break. But Season 3 feels like a separate story, meaning that they might try to finish the whole Season 2 plot in what few episodes they have left. These people are *not great* at finishing their plots in a rush.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,026 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I kinda hope they finish most of this story in season 2. I'm bored with the 21st century and would really love a season of trekking in stars rather than walking round current day streets.

    The only way I could see this story continue where I would be happy is if it's about stopping Agnes/Queen in 2399 using proper spaceships like the Stargazer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I too would like to see a swift end to this trip the 2020s. The first 2-3 episodes of the Season were pretty enjoyable and with the exception of Lower Decks was the closest I had gotten to watching decent Trek in a while. They had finally nailed the feel of a Trek future, and I'd like them to get back to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,283 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Now they have to get Picard out of FBI custody. If only they hadn't already staged a prison break type rescue a few episodes ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,026 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Unless of course that is Ducane and not an FBI guy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,297 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    I think the whole oh the Borg Queen needs to get endorphins going or whatever it is to take over bit is rubbish. She is a Borg Queen and uses nanites. She should have at least half of L.A assimilated by now if not even all of it and more.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭Evade


    A cool twist on assimilating in this era might be to steal be inspired by Stargate's replicators. When the replicators had to use present day Earth materials to construct themselves they were much weaker and couldn't do some of their tricks and reproduced more slowly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,283 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    So any idea what happened in the bar after she smashed the window?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,728 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Could make sense that Borg assimilation and replication is based on the materials they absorb. Definitely a Stargate steal, but would fit.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



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