Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Cowardice? Best recent example is a recent American president who scuttled away into a bunker because of a mere riot near the White House.

You're a Russian apologetist and didn't bother to provide any rational argument as a response to any of my points. Only waffle and argumentum ad hominem. You do not discuss, you polute the thread with nonsense and conspiracy theories laced with Russian propaganda. Either you are a Russian troll, deluded person or a useful idiot in Russian service. The latter group are common, unfortunately. Creating chaos in the democratic world, and making us argue with each other while Kremlin steals en masse and wages various wars and "operations".

It is pointless to engage with you. You live in a delusional reality. And you're on going on the ignore list 😎

I watched it. Andrew Bacevich? He places the majority of the blame on Putin. I told myself I'd stop watching the moment he mentioned Iraq, he almost made it.

As for the Burns quotes, they are observations. Russia does feel provoked by NATO, many are keenly aware of that, which is why there's been an appeasement policy for years. It took until 2014 for NATO to actually react to Russian expansionism. Russia expands through force, NATO expands through voluntary membership (slight difference)

You are the one unwilling to explore honestly any opinion that does not correspond to your own.

Greed is to blame for all of it...simple as that.

You seriously need to take a look at this doc

I honestly think it would open your eyes.

As usual it is poor working class kids on both sides, killing each other and dying for the good of their respective masters who give no **** about them...

This thread is proof positive that western society has become a heaving mass of dumbed down, easily manipulated, narcissistic morons....

If greed has anything to do with it - its the Greed of Putin and his regime. We live in a capitalist society. Everything is done with self interest in mind. But there are standards, and ethics and morality too. The US will give us LNG - will they turn a profit? Yes. Are they doing it with that in mind? Yes partially. But the main reason is Europe's willingness and need to disconnect from Russian Energy imports.

Are their working class people in armed forces? Yes, absolutely. Why are Ukrainian working class soldiers killing their Russian counterparts?

• Because Russian invaded Ukraine
• Because their forces are raping, murdering, and looting
• Because they have been brainwashed into thinking Ukraine is a NAZI state

How does any of the above have anything to do with NATO?

@Nordner your type of left wing politics is ruining the left en masse. This is Corbynesque type nonsense. Yes Jeremy sounded wonderful when he gave speeches. Unfortunately as a political leader, my 12 year old could have beaten him.

You are not posting anything credible. And when you are called out, you revert to this sad, tired old fashioned socialism. It sounds lovely. In a speech. But its not credible. And you dont have the excuse that you are not intelligent - you clearly are. You are misguided, and morally confused.

Do you know what i will say? I blame GW Bush, and the Post 9/11 Iraq War, for creating the environment in which your mind has been warped. They made hideous mistakes, and went to war on faulty grounds, and weakened the standing of the west. And you @Nordner , you are Collateral Damage. And the damage manifests years later, with you, sincerely holding your beliefs. And blaming the west for the actions of a non-western state. Hideous actions, including rape, murder, torture and looting. Horrors. That cannot AT ALL be equated with anything a western power has done in generations.

And nonsensical as it is - you blame the west. Its a moralistic hangover from 2001-2005 - you need to snap out of it

I shouldnt have even posted - its just, something analogous to embarrassment, but without the arrogance. Its fear, perhaps concern. That this anti western leftism is dangerous, and is gonna further warp the left. And have the right wing laughing at us on election day. Just as BJ did at Corbyn's expense in 2019

EDIT - im watching your YT link - i cannot at all see what it has to do with this war btw but il reply none the less

It is not crazy. . You are basing your comment on the kind of rant Putin is putting out there , eg we are all the one, we are the same, we are all brothers etc, etc, etc . The sole reason for this war - and Putin has said so himself in various ways- is to pull the 13 independent states back into a reconstructed USSR. Remember when he said that the MAJOR MAJOR mistake made by Yeltsin in splitting up the USSR. This idea of getting rid of nazis, failed state , or whatever you are having are all smoke screens

What are Ukraine's chances of repelling the coming onslaught in the east/south of country?

They'll be massively outnumbered probably 3-1.

The Russians won't go for column like attacks but just obliterate anything with artillery and they have almost free air space

Agree with the opinion that the war in Eastern Ukraine may well develop into a prolonged war of attrition - assuming that Putin has postponed (for now) the attempt to occupy all of Ukraine. The possibility is that the Russian forces will now focus on taking a corridor from Donetsk/Luhansk to the Crimean peninsula and cut Ukraine off from the Azov Sea entirely.

It must be hoped that NATO arms supplies will tip the balance in Ukraine's favour:

US national security adviser Jake Sullivan told ABC News: "We're going to get Ukraine the weapons it needs to beat back the Russians to stop them from taking more cities and towns."

The Ukrainians have a chance - a good one in my opinion

• There will be one front now - to the southeast and East (Donbas and around Crimea/Mariupol region). Compared to having another front North of Kiev, and also to the North East. Equipment and manpower is all going to be flowing in roughly one direction
• Heavier more advanced equipment is en route and being deployed. including APC's, Drones, Antitank weapons, and shoulder mounted AA (to say nothing of abandoned Russian Equipment)
• Western Intelligence will be handed over to the Ukrainians en masse - they will be receiving 'tips' on a daily, perhaps hourly basis
• I cannot see Russian Morale being anything but poor at this stage
• Ukrainian Morale will be strong atm - regardless of whether Russia wants to continue talking nonsense (never intended to capture Kyiv, Donbas was always the goal) - we know that Ukrainian Resistance forced Russia to re-evaluate and in the case of Kyiv - retreat
• Ukrainian Will to fight is at an all time high given increasing evidence of Russian atrocities

ALL IMHO of course -

It seems that Putin will go for an all out 'shock and awe' from the east to break through Ukrainian resistance. If so the Ukrainians should allow Russian advances in sertain areas and draw them out and into prepared zones (minefields and ambush positions). This could allow them to conserve their forces and allow much of the Russian attack to fall short of the real line of resistance.

That is all based on a Facebook post. There are now claims that the Facebook account was hacked, and that it’s Russian lies.

I don’t know where the truth lies, but there will be movies made about the hero’s of Mariupol.