Day/Night or Smart Meter?

Ginger83 · 01-04-2022 3:06pm #1

I was thinking of changing my meter to reduce electric bills. Currently on standard plan with Electric Ireland about two months now.

We are saving for a solar pv system.

Which meter would be best?

yankinlk · 01-04-2022 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239829/day-night-or-smart-meter

Day Night. /end thread

Ginger83 · 01-04-2022 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866473#Comment_118866473

Do you mind explaining why?

fluffykre · 01-04-2022 3:53pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0331/1289543-cost-living/

The Government is looking at the possibility of using "time of day pricing" for electricity in an effort to address spiraling energy costs.

"Minister Ryan said he will meet energy providers again and ask them to consider putting all customers on the beneficial package that new customers get."

Based on the present smart tarrifs the smart meter is more there to benift the energy supplier rather then the customer. Once you move to a Smart meter you cant go back to the non-smart meter. So at this time sticking with the non-smart would be a good idea until some really good smart tarrifs come out. The non-smart meter also gives you access to the traditional day/night tariffs which many like due to the low night rate

The above article is a bit shocking imagine they decide to place everyone with a smart meter on a time of use tariff. 50 cent per unit at dinner time :)

kirk. · 01-04-2022 3:59pm

Will they not force everyone onto the smart meters or what's the crack there

would you have to get day/nite now to stay on it

bullit_dodger · 01-04-2022 6:04pm

Yankinkl wasn't being smart or cheeky there with "day/night ... end thread", sadly he's on the money. The is a whole thread about it you can read.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058196668/smart-tariff-unit-rates

Note this thread was from a few months back, so (maybe) the landscape has changed since and the suppliers have introduced a few smart meter tariffs which are competitive, but from what I understand of the market, any smart tariffs are either outrageous day time prices, or the standing charges are massive.

I'm sure (or at least hopeful) that they will come up with competitive tariffs for solar households over time, but the level of obfuscation that exists in this space is ridiculous. Respect to bonkers.ie for being able to work out the math, higher standing charges in one place, offset by 2% reduction in email billing, verses "cash back", verses lower night rate with higher peak rate. etc etc Seriously, the regulator should do something there, it's nonsense.

Ginger83 · 01-04-2022 6:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867113#Comment_118867113

Are day and night meters still available or will they try to push a smart meter?

Ginger83 · 01-04-2022 7:32pm

I got one ordered after twenty minutes on hold. Day rate increases by 1c but night rate much cheaper.

Irish Steve · 01-04-2022 8:28pm

I'm not going to hold my breath on better and more attractive rates on smart meters, the only direction I see coming is higher rates at peak periods, and our gombeen green minister is encouraging that nightmare scenario, in the misguided thought that the energy providers out of the goodness of their hearts will offer better rates to families that are under pressure.

I can see it now, more and more people unable to provide hot meals for their families at "peak periods" because the special rates are too high to be affordable, so meals will end up being moved to stupid times of the day or night in order to avoid the peaks. Who the hell does he think he's fooling?

In the same vein, I can see a situation where people who can actually help reduce generating demand by feeding solar power back into the grid will end up paying a higher standing charge to recompense those same suppliers for the loss of sales of their overpriced products, or there will be punitive standing charges if you don't take more than a certain number of high rate "day" units, for the same reasons, they have to justify their existence.

I won't be at all surprised to see a massive acceleration in the move away from gas, let alone oil, there's already been hints of a time when even a gas hob will not be allowed, so everything will be electric. There had better be some very robust plans in place to make very sure that they don't end up killing people as a result of no cooking, no heating, no hot water and no light, and no way to make a call to emergency services because the mobile networks and the land lines are all out of action because there's no power, the latest incarnation of land lines don't use copper, they use fibre, through the broadband router, which needs power in the house to transmit the signal. You may be very sure that our wonderful gombeens in power haven't even begun to look at the implications of an all electric future, let alone plan for how to make sure that life is safe in this brave new world that they're rushing us all headlong in to.

Ginger83 · 01-04-2022 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867745#Comment_118867745

We hope to gather enough funds to install solar pv to reduce our dependency on the grid.

Irish Steve · 01-04-2022 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867804#Comment_118867804

So am I, but it's not easy when you're on a fixed income. As for where all this is going, I'm not sure I want to think about it too much, it's depressing!

Ginger83 · 02-04-2022 5:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867833#Comment_118867833

I know what you mean. We could put in a small system now but not sure if it's the right thing to do or continue saving for a more suitable system.

Energy prices are only going one way.

Ginger83 · 05-04-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867113#Comment_118867113

Good news. Esb came out today and said the meter we have is a day/night meter so it only took two minutes to setup.

OmegaRed · 05-04-2022 3:18pm

New build here and came with a smart meter installed. Wanted to move to Day/Night and after some back and forth and confusion with Electric Ireland, the ESB were out last friday and within 15 minutes I had my new digital day / night meter installed. PHEV, washing machine, dishwasher, garage dehumidifer all timed and running in the 11pm to 8am slot at a cost of about 10c per KW (going up to almost 13c come May 1st).

As an example, the 9kw battery on the car could cost €2 to €2.50 to charge during the day. Now its costing just under 1 euro

bullit_dodger · 05-04-2022 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884197#Comment_118884197

Just in case you don't realize ..... it's actually 12am -> 9am (in summer), but as you correctly noted 11pm -> 8am (in winter)

I wouldn't like for you to be firing off all your devices at 23:01 thinking that you were on night rate.....when infact you would be paying full whack day rate. You need to get those guys working at 00:01. In fact I set mine a few mins after like 00:05, as the clock on the meter can be out by a min or two.

The start of washing machines/dishwashers program is where the water gets heated, so that's where the energy intensive bit is and important to get that right.

OmegaRed · 05-04-2022 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884230#Comment_118884230

Good shout. The ESB installer also mentioned that the clock on the day / night meter stay at winter hours also. I didn't question it as I presume its just easier for the above and keeping everything in the 11/8 slot all year round (but is actually 12 to 9 in summer time as you mentioned)

yankinlk · 05-04-2022 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884230#Comment_118884230

I knew there was something dodgy about this. Noticed the clock on the meter was an hour off this morning.

Are we certain that they offset the times based on the meter - or do they correct them - and is it up to each provider to decide? EDIT Found it: https://www.electricireland.ie/news/article/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-nightsaver-meter

Glad i read this thread! I was off by an hour in the morning with my night rate charging. Was hoping to be done charging by now but the forecast this week meant im back charging again.

adrianglass · 05-04-2022 6:36pm

Interested to come across this thread....

We recently had our meter 'upgraded' to a smart meter (didn't really have a choice!) - and we're looking at solar pv on the roof, with a battery.

Both of the solar pv companies said 'you ought to be on a day/night meter - but, after an hour or so on the BordGais website, I'm still none the wiser.

Even phoned them, and the nice lady on the phone was as clueless as me....

So - are the 'smart' plans not really worth the effort of setting them up, in terms of cost savings?

Annoyingly - the BordGais website showed be 15 - 20 possible plans, half of which (the cheapest ones) were only available to new customers..

Thanks

Adrian

yankinlk · 05-04-2022 6:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885086#Comment_118885086

well - for a start - just browsing the BG site... they are atrocious for Night Rate (and day rate as well!) Why not pay bonkers a visit and see how the rank them. Unfortunately u really need to dig into the PDFs of each provider to get the actual numbers of standing charge and unit rates. bonkers helps a bit.

bullit_dodger · 05-04-2022 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885013#Comment_118885013

Nahh, all the day/night meters are like that mate. Basically, they use UTC timezone under the hood, which is GMT (in winter time), but when we move to BST (British summer time).....that's actually GMT + 1.

Personally I just set my battery to charge at 00:05 -> 07:45, it's nearly 8 hrs and with that I can have it charge at 1kwhr per hour (0.3C) and be completely full and I never have to adjust the time if it's winter/summer as that's always nighttime regardless.

There is also a "nerdy reason". If you look at the energy report for a day, say at 7pm.....those daily reports are usually 00:00-23:59. So if you did charge in winter from say 23:05...when you looked the following day, the battery might say

Charged 7Kwhr

Discharged 8.1Kwhr

which seems "odd". How could you discharge more than you charge, but of course some of the charging I put into the battery was from the previous day (if you follow me) but it doesn't "balance" out until you look at the full day. I know.....I'm a nerd :-)

yankinlk · 05-04-2022 8:07pm

I did move to after midnight to follow your advice before. But I don't like the idea of finishing charge an hour early... and having the battery drain for an hour during night rate.

But it's not a problem for much longer hopefully!

bullit_dodger · 05-04-2022 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885500#Comment_118885500

Ohh yeah, I remember that now. Sorry man - hard to keep track. It does seem "odd" that you can't set charge/discharge times and have to feck about with charge rates and guess the times that it will finish. Is that really the only way?

Ginger83 · 06-04-2022 7:04pm

It's surprising what power you could use at night. Last night 2 washes of clothes, 2 dishwasher cycles, a bit of tumble drying and a shower used 9 units.

OmegaRed · 07-04-2022 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890554#Comment_118890554

Indeed. i charged the PHEV 50%, had the dishwasher, dryer and washing machine going as well as the dehumidifier in the garage on full pet and used up nearly 13kw. All that cost me about €1.30

SD_DRACULA · 07-04-2022 10:07am

Anyone here know if anyone actually managed to get rid of the pointless "smart" meter and go to a day/night one?

HandsomeRover · 12-04-2022 2:28am

Is it true that you will only be able to 'sell' to the grid with a smart meter?

Do 'they' need your permission (signature) to swap out your existing meter for one of these?

I live rurally and privately, would not like to be surprised by a meter change without having the opportunity to refuse.

yankinlk · 12-04-2022 6:51am

I asked to replace my 24hour meter for a day night one when I got PV installed. When they arrived they had to ask to power down my house for 15 mins. I was in a meeting for work so they waited, but nearly missed them.... but if I wasn't home I don't know they might have flipped the switch anyway.

I put a note on my day night meter asking "please no smart meter here"

Ubbquittious · 12-04-2022 10:19am

What is going to happen with Eamonn Ryan's mandatory time of day pricing? The cynic in me thinks everyone forced onto sh1tty smart meter tariff with no feed-in.

SD_DRACULA · 12-04-2022 10:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914939#Comment_118914939

Sort of hope that happens now, maybe if everyone is on them some decent tariffs will pop up 🤞

Right now day/night meter = tracker mortgage.

Irish Steve · 12-04-2022 11:14am

The cynic in me say that Ryan and his cohorts are meeting in private and rubbing their hands in glee at the combined fortune of extra tax take for the government to fund their agenda, and the problems with "dirty" energy focussing attention on moving away as fast as possible, they must be loving every moment.

As for reality, I hope it comes home to destroy them next election, their supposed "green" agenda is little more than a thinly disguised "privelege" agenda of looking after their friends and making sure that their own nests are well feathered. The SEAI scheme is loaded towards the one stop shop, and if you can't afford that, or have already spent money on parts of that option, the other options offer almost nothing that will help the most hard pressed.

Contempt doesn't even come close to how I regard the Greens, I'd love to slap that self satisfied grin of Ryan's face, I was utterly amazed when he stood up the other day and said that multiple tariffs for electricity would be a good thing for the most hard pressed, when the opposite will be the harsh reality for many families, the thought of parents having to tell children, "sorry, you'll have to wait for your meal, it's too expensive to cook it now" only makes me even more determined to expose the Greens for the misguided morons that they are.

KCross · 12-04-2022 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914203#Comment_118914203

Is it true that you will only be able to 'sell' to the grid with a smart meter?

Yes, thats how it is being setup but there is an interim period where you go on an "estimated export" until you get the smart meter. The FiT will be worth <€100/yr for most people and the smart meter tariffs will cost you more than that (relative to a day/night rate) so its pointless signing up for FiT unless you are already stuck on a smart tariff.

Day/Night or Smart Meter?

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