Russia - threadbanned users in OP

The Donbas war was instigated by Russia. As with many tyrannical dictatorships throughout history, Russia need an 'other' - a group to blame and rail against. The looked at a pre-existing condition in Donbas - mixed nationalities and identities, and they incited 'their people' (ethnic Russians) to act as they did, and attempt to cede from Ukraine proper. And that created a reaction in the form of the Azov/Ukrainian nationalists. Horrible things happened, and that is obviously worth highlighting - but i view the conflict as being instigated by Russia - im not saying there werent extremists on both sides - there probably were - but the 'conflict' is a real-time fiction that served Russian interests

The Russians very much exploited for their own ends an existing Northern Ireland like ethnic partisan situation in those regions. There is zero doubt about that, but they were able to grow such murderous roots because the soil was already very fertile. There's no probably as far as extremists are concerned. For example the Azoz faction didn't magically spring forth as a reaction, they have been around since the 1980's even before the fall of communism. And they weren't alone in Ukraine as far as Right wing nationalists went. The joke is they came out of a bunch of neo-nazi football hooligans and were allied with Moscow Spartak's own neo-nazi football hooligans. Their fathers would have chugged vodka together and then their sons shot each other. The twisted irony of idiotic ideologies. The Russian propaganda machine can quite easily sell the "Ukrainian nazis" to their people because that history is very much there. While of course avoiding any mention of Russia's connection to and larger nazi groups of their own(Wagner group just one example), or their fanning the flames of the separatists. These Far Right Ukrainian nationalist militia's were supported by Ukraine on their side of it, the Far Right Russian separatist militia's supported by Russia on their side of it, with separatist and nationalist civilians as the minced meat sandwich between them.

Now only a moron draped in their newly minted yellow and blue flags would claim Ukraine didn't have more than a bit of a problem with the Far Right and support for it, including government support, especially in the east of that country, what is also very clear over the last eight years since Maidan(where the Far Right were also in play) is that support for the Far Right has remarkably fallen away to feck all and remarkably rapidly with it. Where once they could be sure of getting a fair number of seats in local and national government, IIRC in the last elections they didn't even get one across the line.

Since Maidan anti corruption advocates and legislation has been brought in, and lord knows that nation needed it and still does. They've been trying to clean house all over the place. They went and voted in a Russian speaking Jewish TV comedian becuase of what he stood for and because he stood for major change. One of the changes he brought in seems like optics and a simple change; he insisted the tradition of having his photo in every official and public service area be thrown out. That's huge in that part of the world where the cults of personality love that nonsense. The majority of the Ukrainian people want change and change for the better.

Like I was saying earlier, a good question to ask Russian supporters and bots is; if putin is so keen on de-nazifying Ukraine, then why didn't he do it ten, fifteen, twenty years ago when there were far more nazis in Ukraine, with more support and power on top? It seems 'nazis' are grand, so long as they're our nazis and we control them like Russia did ten, fifteen, twenty years ago.

They've a neck as hard as a jockey's bollocks. It's the usual Russian propaganda almost entirely aimed at their own people to keep them on side and they're keeping to the script of "Ukrainians are nazi bastards who kill civilians, not us and we've asked the UN to investigate, but we Russians know the West hates us so will ignore our pleas. Poor poor Mother Russia". And many of their people will believe it. It's the script they've grown up with.

Yup and the Red Cross, EU investigators and the High Commission of Human Rights of the UN. Putinbots all. Given we're Irish here, or most of us, how easily we forget our own Donbas up north back in the day and how it wasn't as simple as Irish Americans thought. Only the Unionists/Republicans were murdering terrorists/freedom fighters[Delete as applicable depending on side asked].

You missed this part: "save for the scale of course". And the English blew the crap out of central Dublin with artillery in 1916