Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

lawrencesummers · 03-04-2022 04:13AM

I cant understand why we allow the tactical decision of having casey exit so poorly after collecting a restart. The amount of territory we give up is crazy.

leinster often used Lowe to exit and get to halfway.

03-04-2022 08:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118872895#Comment_118872895

every question at this point can be answered by saying van Grann is a chancer who has managed to get 5 years wages out of Irish rugby. Sure there's individual issues like the one you've asked but overall it comes down to appointing a guy without the proper CV 5 years ago and letting him fail continually on the job.

lawrencesummers · 03-04-2022 08:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118873118#Comment_118873118

ive never been critical of him before, that leinster team is a very difficult one to beat, and jvg needs to better exeter over the 2 legs and get a result against ulster or the season is effectively over and his tenure is essentially a failure

Jump_In_Jack · 03-04-2022 09:24AM

Thought before the match the Leinster back three would have them in front and the Leinster front row bench would finish it off as a contest, and proved to be that exactly.

Munster need a better tight 5 and a better back 3 to beat good teams.

Hopefully next week we’ll have Beirne available to partner Jenkins and Zebo and Earls starting, Gallagher at fullback assuming Haley out.

Tough fixtures remaining in the URC, Ulster and Leinster away, potentially the only points we’ll pick up might be the Cardiff match in Thomond Park.

The loss to the Lions really messed up our chance of a home quarterfinal.

One of the three SA teams right below us on the table, or maybe even Scarlets or Edinburgh will pass us out as their remaining fixtures are far more favourable.

03-04-2022 10:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118873314#Comment_118873314

It's not about the players at this stage. it's about the tactics, and the cohesion of the units. None of our units function particularly well imo. There was nothing different last night to most of our games this season. if you make your tackles against us, we have no nous or guile or ability (or whatever Thornley might want to call it) to score against sides who keep their shape and make their tackles.

We look, more or less, like any other poorly coached side.

Schorpio · 03-04-2022 10:29AM

Was at the match last night. Going into it I didn't expect us to win, and yet I still left feeling disappointed which speaks volumes about the overall performance.

Again, for the most part we looked rudderless. South African style rugby, no plan B. We kept kicking and losing the kicking battle (comprehensively).

It will be another mediocre year with nothing to show at the end of it. Depressing stuff.

jimdemp · 03-04-2022 10:45AM

Munster had zero fight. They accepted the result before the game started.

Interesting Munster are always well up for the Connacht games now a days more so then the Leinster games

razorblunt · 03-04-2022 12:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118871555#Comment_118871555

He’s only been there a season hasn’t he? You’d be annoyed if you were a Quins fan.

razorblunt · 03-04-2022 12:35PM

It will be interesting to see what a new coach will do but there are quite a few players who have regressed considerably, Niall Scannell and Daly most notably.

Jenkins would want a kick up the hole before next week too if he’s involved. He was woeful yesterday

Dubinusa · 03-04-2022 03:09PM

I've never thought VanGrann was a good coach. He has done little, if anything to improve Munster, bar get some young lads into the frame.

Why he persists with the same methods and tactics over and over is strange. It's not like Munster have a poor squad. He is a guy who has tunnel vision, imo and can't vary off from what he believes is the right way to play. It's terrible for Munster and Irish rugby.

That squad has players who are top quality and yet they look poor so frequently. Even if Munster were to win silverware this year, I would say that VanGrann is a bust. Simply because, he won't change what is apparent to most.

Right now Healy is playing better than Carberry and still Carberry gets selected. DDA looks invisible with Munster and is wasted atm. I think a new coach will improve Munster and hopefully instill a belief in the squad. For all the talk of the young props at Munster, they still have not made any kind of gains to be considered international standard players. Anyway, I think it's crucial that a good coach be hired and hopefully not a bok who is in over his head. JVG will not be missed.

03-04-2022 03:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118873633#Comment_118873633

Can you explain what you mean by "zero fight" because frankly I thought they actually fronted up well, made their tackles and kept plugging away. I see ThreeRedKings used the phrase "you have to win the violence" and I'm not sure what he meant either tbh.

The gameplan is far worse than the player's attitude, imo.

mahoney_j · 03-04-2022 03:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874678#Comment_118874678

He’s tactically inept ….no plan b snd a very stubborn coach I’d say …..big fan of Healy and he’s putting serious pressure on carbery atm but all round carbery is a nudge ahead ….would love to see a 10 of Healy and 15 carbery next week but with carbery next in line at 10 for Ireland proably won’t happen

generic_throwaway · 03-04-2022 03:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118871848#Comment_118871848

Van Graan has done nothing to move the team forward over his tenure.

Caranica · 04-04-2022 07:52AM

Am I the only one not too concerned about the injuries? The young ones have stood up when called upon.

https://twitter.com/RTErugby/status/1510853181840179202?t=jcAHo6u9FXsb_ChX3wcolQ&s=19

Cookiemunster · 04-04-2022 08:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877248#Comment_118877248

I'd say you are. The 'young ones' got a roasting on Saturday. Beirne will be a huge loss. And we badly need Kleyn and Haley back in the team.

lawrencesummers · 04-04-2022 08:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874099#Comment_118874099

Im not sure how you didnt include archer in that list.

His mistakes and giving away penalties are consistent, and he has little mobility around the park, no carrying threat and his hands are average at best.

He has been a great servant and great clubman, has a wealth of caps but this is a ruthless level of competition and im shocked that the management are still giving him so much gametime when he is clearly very much in decline.

Jenkins started his first game in a new team after a long lay off , i wouldn't be so critical of him just yet.

04-04-2022 08:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877248#Comment_118877248

Beirne is possibly Munster's most important player, it's a huge loss if he's out imo.

04-04-2022 08:21AM

I cannot recall the last time I was this disheartened after a loss to Leinster to be honest. The only positive I can think of is the majority of the coaching ticket are heading off into the sunset in a matter of weeks.

I was at the game and have honestly felt the atmosphere was terrible. Have experienced better atmospheres at Zebre games.

Munster themselves need to pull up their socks. The matchday experience at Thomond Park has gone massively downhill. I got to Thomond Park early but it was nearly 5.45pm before anyone surfaced selling programmes, a friend of mine arrived at 6.30pm and couldn't find anyone to get a programme from either. The food options on the West stand were awful too, a menu on the wall with 6 or 7 items but in fact, they were only serving two.

I would always provide honest feedback in the post match surveys that come by email but it appears at this stage that they are completely ignored.

One thing I did find strange was the team didn't do their normal half lap before heading in after the warm up. I feel that makes a massive difference to the atmosphere.

MRSC renewal info is due this week, talking to some other members on Saturday, there is talks of a 20% hike on the cards.

Unless there is a new coaching ticket announced soon, I can see there be a massive reduction in numbers in the supporters club for next season. I will be seriously reconsidering my renewal over the next few weeks.

Former Former Former · 04-04-2022 09:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877248#Comment_118877248

Beirne and Kilcoyne would be huge losses, their replacements aren't of the required quality at all. Losing Conway will be manageable if Earls, Zebo and Haley (i.e. none of the young ones) are available.

On the plus side, Exeter are without Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jonny Hill and Jack Nowell.

Burkie1203 · 04-04-2022 10:13AM

Quinlan and Ger Gilroy had interesting conversation on OTB this morning

Worth a look

Cookiemunster · 04-04-2022 11:09AM

John Ryan to Wasps has been confirmed by Munster.

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status/1510935879984074755

04-04-2022 11:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877810#Comment_118877810

Thought it was a bit weird. Gilroy was right that Munster have been mismanaged but his point that POM and Murray etc have apparently been failed I think is just wrong tbh. Those senior players have been there through however many coaches and have failed to win a trophy under any of them. Connacht and Glasgow have won the league since Munster last did. Don't tell me Munster couldn't have done it in that time period with the players available.

Dubinusa · 04-04-2022 01:20PM

I thought Munster played well. The backline moved the ball around and showed some glimpses of a squad that's developing. It was a tough ask for Jenkins to come in with so little match time under his belt. Carberry played well too. I was impressed with him and I thought he varied things nicely.

The difference between the teams imo, is how comfortable leinster's front row play with linking up and passing. They are faster, more mobile and I think more skillfully than the Munster front row. It's just one thing that I noticed. For all the effort and grunt that Archer and Scannell have, they are lacking with link play. Loughman was imo, better than the others. I have not seen much of him but, I thought he was impressive.

I know Fineen gets a lot of plaudits with Munster fans and he's a good enough player but, Ahern looks a more imposing player. A good run of games and Ahern will surpass him, imo. Ahern is a lad who was really good at underage and hopefully can build onwards. Munster need more skill up front. Grunt and physicality gets you only so far. The provinces in general do not have the size and physicality to get over the top European sides. In saying that, Munster are probably the biggest pack on the island but they are lacking skilled forwards.

The new coaching team have a fairly strong squad to work with and the young players are a new breed of skilled players. The right coaching and improving forward skills will get Munster humming.

I think Larkham did add something to Munster. The more expansive play is great to see. It's probably a pity he's leaving.

razorblunt · 04-04-2022 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877316#Comment_118877316

Agreed, I’d left Archer off as I focusing on the younger players, who might get an upturn under a new coach

phog · 04-04-2022 02:50PM

I haven't seen the game on TV yet but genuine question was there a TMO there, I couldn't believe there was no intervention from the officials for the ruck that Coombes got injured in.

I thought we were competitive enough in the first half but obviously not as slick with the ball as Leinster. Ref seemed to give us nothing with Leinster often offside, at least 3 crooked throws in their lineout only one was called back, 4 (?) penalties in a row in the lead up to DDA's try and no card. We needed every bit of luck we could get but it wasn't happening on Saturday evening. The second half we let it drift and those 2 tries in succession closed the game off from us making a comeback.

I suppose we need a full quality 23 to be available for us to beat the likes of Leinster and we were missing too many front liners to be in with a chance. No Killer, Beirne, Kleyn, losing Coombes after 20 mins and then no Conway or Zebo and Earls only making a return after weeks out. I've no idea what happened Jenkins but he lost the ball in contact a few times and you can't do that playing Leinster.

phog · 04-04-2022 02:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118878080#Comment_118878080

No surprise he's leaving but I'm disappointed to see him go.

04-04-2022 02:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877286#Comment_118877286

The team from last Saturday wasn't particular young, imo. Kendellan and Wycherley in the pack maybe but I don't think either was our worst forward.

04-04-2022 03:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879322#Comment_118879322

Fineen Wycherley turns 25 this year, I don't think he counts anymore. More concerning for me with him is the fact that he doesn't seem to be improving or developing. He's another player who is shoehorned into the second row regularly for Munster, when 6 looks the position best suited to his size and skillset.

04-04-2022 03:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879361#Comment_118879361

Agree, his career is really plateauing at a URC level, yet another player who isn't improving much under this regime tbh.

But in any event, i wouldn't fault any of the younger players really for Saturday. The wings got badly let down by the much, much more experienced guys beside them.

aloooof · 04-04-2022 03:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879361#Comment_118879361

He doesn't turn 25 til December, to be fair, and 24 is plenty young for a 2nd row.

Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

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