Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

We have always been defenceless!

We were defenceless in WW2, we were defenceless in the Cold War, we were defenceless during the Troubles, we were defenceless during the “War on Terror” years, are you somehow suggesting we weren’t at risk at all for the last hundred years until now. Why are you jumping into this thread an acting like you alone have made this amazing discovery, or that somehow it’s a change from the norm? And actual point of fact getting back to the “size of the economy bit” while a tiny % of gdp, the actual budget is several times what it was when we were spending above 1% on defence during the Troubles.

Amazingly (and in some cases unfortunately) politicians do things and spend on things that get them re-elected. New roads, businesses, housing stock, health. The Irish people want that, spending on defence, not so much. If the budget is doubled to €2 billion, expect a shitload of complaining in the Daíl, just look at the shite PBP etc are spewing today for example. And even then the budget is unlikely to stretch to fighters, however most likely will pay for finally setting up the Primary Radar systems.

Besides which arguably the threat of Russia has been greatly weakened as their Ukrainian misadventure has proved that they are in a terrible state. Also the argument that the government priority is somehow to sustain the status quo goes against everything we have seen since the Commissions report. You have read that right?

Putin has been ramping up for years. With his over flights and aggressive posturing.

They seemed more able in Syria. But they were up against a far less well equipped opposition.

Emperor and his new clothes it seems.

How does this play into our discussion here.

For it seems something more modem but still affordable is still where we in need to be.

There a big difference in cost (especially in running costs) even in 4th gen fighters

Cheapest to buy or cheapest to run.

I doubt it… a Taoiseach mentions tomorrow a multi million or billion euro investment in the Aer Corps and defence forces the NGOs and a load of the GETEA ( give everything to everybody else ) brigade would have a conniption.

Our on-going problem is strategic blindness. We are always caught a dollar short. It is Defence and volatility right now in Europe. Yet we were happy to let tech. companies feed us the benefits of being connected to Gas and electric Grids and close down many high output Irish Power Stations. In Defence we opted for show the Flag, fetch, carry, rescue, flood defences , feed animals in snow, and put out fires.

You can build a thousand houses over two years and a stick of bombs can level them and the occupants in seconds of mayhem. Some blame also attaches to the Military leadership and ongoing neutrality paralysis.

This submission to commission on defence would seem to state otherwise.

God help us, Jonny might have been right 😣

If they build a military strong enough to keep Russia at bay, Russia will never allow it on it's doorstep. Cuba etc.

Interesting saying we need to be accurate and then not being. No the Hurricanes, sea fires and vampires were not frontline aircraft by the time we had them in service, nor did we have the capability to even use their limited capabilities. No the Flower class corvettes were not frontline warships being an emergency war program already succeed in service by far better designs when we got them and not even close to being “frontline” by the time we retired them. The MTBs were an early and limited variant of MTBs compared to other British designs and highly illsuited to Irish Sea state conditions.

Harriers were never popular, they filled a role for navies that wanted air power but couldn’t afford large carriers and the US Marines, other than that they had a relatively limited customer base, and a high loss rate. Moreover given its single engine nature and limited payload and range how you think it would have served a purpose in Irish service is beyond me.

Where we are today is effectively the same as where we have always been, not enough of anything, but enough for the politicians to point at.

Nah, at least some of the hurricanes were bought from the Brits rather than repaired and reused, but they were long out of the frontline usage by then, don’t think they were even being used as CAS at that point, hence why the U.K. finally sold them to us. After that you’re right for the AC.

Russia had a fairly bad time of it in Finland when they tried in the Winter War.

Against an overwhelming level of force and the Soviets suffer massive losses, if Finland had received the level of international support that Ukraine currently has they most likely would have won.