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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,770 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    The problem with that video of Ukrainian soldiers shooting Russian soldiers in the legs is now the Russian propaganda machine will use it to prove to Russians that the Nazis need to be stopped. It will also be shared among Russian troops who are guarding Ukrainian POWs so if they werent getting tortured before this then they more than likely are after that video. The Ukrainian soldiers who filmed and uploaded it to the internet have now put their own POWs in a lot more danger. Like in the video you can see at least one Russian soldier is close to death from bleeding, its unlikely he survived much longer. So the Russians will see that and say its an eye for an eye. The video also thrashes the idea of any Russian soldiers surrendering for the $10k payment, they will see it as a trick now after that so its completely counter productive to Ukraines war effort.

    In terms of the information war the video being released is after giving Russia a gift that they will use. Its good that the Ukrainian authorities are going to investigate but its really damaging for those soldiers to release it, their own POWs are going to face the backlash now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Or more likely it was entirely staged by the Russians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,104 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I can't believe it either, as Putrid has never done anything so uncivilised before. Unless of course you are so uncharitable and uncouth as to mention poisoning another Ukrainian president - Yushchenko - with dioxin, Litvinenko with Polonium, Boris Nemtsov with bullets, the Skripals with novichok and Nevalny with novichok.

    Untitled Image

    No prior form whatsoever, totally unbelieveable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,062 ✭✭✭✭briany


    To say that it gives Russia propaganda material is to ignore that they don't need genuine events for propaganda. They'll just make sh*t up if they have to, and have been doing. The true believers in Russia probably don't need a whole lot of convincing at this stage, and the gullible and the contrarians of the West aren't far behind. I'm sure the alternative voices of the Internet have gotten a fair few flecks of spit on their USB condenser mics over it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,104 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,441 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes, I cannot see any "reset" of Western - Russia relations whilst the dictator remains in power. He has literally invaded his next door neighbour and started a major war in Europe. The idea that this will be quickly brushed off is very far fetched. Imagine if he had invaded Poland instead five weeks ago - that gives you an indication of the gravity of the situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭rogber


    I'd say it also indicates that at least in America news outlets have decided the "novelty" of the war is wearing off and people want distraction from something else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,919 ✭✭✭GM228


    There's a huge difference between a hedge fund fighting a foreign state over sovereign debt (in which it was agreed to the courts jurisdiction, Argentina had agreed to be governed by US law, there was a similar ruling in Ghana, but that jurisdiction was not recognised) and Ukraine trying to recoup money from Russia from war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,770 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    I considered that it might be staged but now a Ukrainian govt official has come out and said they are investigating it would seem to suggest it is real and not Russian disinformation

    yeah for sure they will make up propaganda. Not all people will believe it though. But a video like that showing torture of POWs is just giving the Russians what they want. Their propaganda is that Ukrainians are nazis and now they have video footage to back that up by showing the video on State tv, thats the way they will spin it for their domestic audience. The video is not helpful at all to Ukraines war effort and Id fear for their POWs after it came out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,062 ✭✭✭✭briany


    How is that any particular revelation? Other things happen in the world and news outlets do a story on them? Anyway, if I look at a stream of CNN, the big story at the top of the hour is... Ukraine. Fox News the same.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Well they said they would investigate, all that means is they will try to determine if it is real or not. It might be real, I really don't know. What I do know is that the Russians would have form with staging these types of things, they benefit from it, there is no benefit to the Ukrainians in filming and posting it. So, I would think in this case Cui Bono?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Just because some other news is being reported - even something as frivolous as the Oscar slap - doesn't mean that Ukraine isn't still a major story, and won't continue to dominate the news for a time to come. It's not reasonable to expect that the international press exclusively report on the war, at the expense of everything else. Ukraine was still the top items on Fox, CNN and NBC when I checked today. ABC are leading with the Oscars at the moment (ABC of course broadcast the ceremony in the US), but Ukraine is right there below it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh sure some will be for spin, or just 100% understandable caution and paranoia, but after what putin has done to the economics and political and social standing of Russia and her peoples, it seems own goals are very much his thing. To the degree that if I were some of his inner circle at this point I'd be wondering if he's a Ukrainian double agent.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s a vicious war, which Russia is solely responsible for instigating. They’ve literally invaded their next door neighbour - again! They are observing absolutely no rules whatsoever - bombing the hell out of cities, killing civilians very deliberately, destroying healthcare facilities, opening fire on fleeing refugees, placing nuclear facilities at risk, using cluster bombs, thermobaric / vacuum bombs and phosphorus bombs, the list goes on and on and on and on.

    It’s not acceptable that atrocities happen, but when something that thuggish happened, it’s very easy to see how an vicious response towards the soldiers destroying a country could occur.

    It’s important Ukraine doesn’t respond like that and it will play straight into Russian propaganda if they do.

    Given some of the level of sophistication of the propaganda coming out of Russia, I would even be a little sceptical of pretty much anything.

    However, as utterly unacceptable as those incidents are, if you don’t observe any rules of conflict, you can somewhat expect stuff like this. One side is being held to FAR higher standards than the other by Russian media anyway. Ukraine is literally fighting for its existence against an enormous and brutal army that is just relentlessly pounding its cities into the ground and committing atrocities all over the place. Yet, if they don’t keep the moral high ground they will lose the Russian PR war, which is hugely important and do themselves enormous damage too. Ukraine needs to win hearts and minds in Russia itself against enormous amounts of propaganda. Ultimately that is what will potentially unravel Putin.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Natural resources to some degree, their cash is dwindling and their economy was tiny. One very big reason the sanctions against Russia were so swift and so wide ranging is because they were "easy" to sanction. There'd be some blowback like gas, oil and Western investments, but manageble. The world couldn't do that with China, or America, or the EU nearly so easily. It would hurt the sanctioners as much if not more than the sanctioned.

    Plus there is trust, even among thieves and corporations. Trust that by the petulant and scarily self destructive actions of Russia has been massively eroded.

    If the Western money does go in, and I agree it will, but it'll not be nearly as friendly and it will cost Russia in a big way. Western money has big leverage that it didn't have before and putin gave them that lever.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,287 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Coal and Enriched Uranium to be pegged against Gold in 3...2.....1

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,104 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    There is clear precedent for this. The US Supreme court ruled in favour of using Iranian frozen funds to compensate victims of it's actions. If you can't see similarities or applicability, then that's fine. I'm sure we will be reading about compensation cases against Russia for some time, so we will see how it pans out.

    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/120-nations-accuse-us-top-court-of-violating-law-over-iran-1403333



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    The Russians have been doing this to Ukranian parents since the Crimea invasion...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,770 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    The Sochi Olyppics was probably Putins most public display of corruption. By the time all was said and done that Olympics cost $51bn to stage. To put the scale of corruption into perspective the previous Winter Olympics in Vancouver cost $9bn to stage. In the summer edition London (2012) cost £15bn and Tokyo last year cost $13bn. So Putin spending $51bn on a winter Olympics was just pure gravy for him and his crony oligarchs, the scale of the theft of Russian public money was off the charts with that Olympics. Even at a conservative estimate somewhere in the order of $35bn got siphoned off to oligarchs with Putin taking a nice wedge of it for himself.

    Sochi was also where Russian state sponsored doping began to come to light. At that Olympics (as with all Olympics) the host country has to build a laboratory for the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) to operate from during the Games. Its where all the samples from the athletes are tested and analysed for steroids and other PEDs. The Russians built the laboratory but unknown to WADA they also built an underground tunnel connecting it to a non descript office building up the road. At night time KGB agents used the tunnel to get into the doping laboratory and swap urine samples of doped Russian athletes with clean ones. There was even a tamper proof seal on the samples which was developed by a Swiss company who were specialists in them and it has security features on it and was supposed to be fool proof. But the KGB replicated the tamper proof seal so well that at the time none of the scientists in the anti doping lab opening them up copped it, even though they were told to be on the lookout for fakes.

    And then the scale of the actual doping they were doing, it was at an industrial level with hundreds of athletes involved. If a Russian athlete refused to dope they were just dropped from the team so it was ether dope or give up your career. But despite all that was later found out about Sochi Olympics and Putin using the states resources to for mass scale cheating the IOC barely gave him a slap on the wrist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,287 ✭✭✭brickster69


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Russians are behaving like total savages in this invasion and have utterly destroyed their already poor reputation.

    Zelenskyy is completely correct in calling for that video and incident to be thoroughly investigated and is holding the Ukrainian military to a much higher standard, as the defence forces of a civilised European country under attack.

    Ukraine has ambitions to become part of the EU and to be part of the broader European family of nations that had put this kind of insane war and conflict behind them and adopted far loftier goals around building peace and freedom, stability, prosperity and quality of life, human rights and a system based around a very optimistic, forward looking set of shared values that are what those institutions were about.

    That is where it’s headed and Russia seems to be headed towards some kind of weird, aggressive, dark ages militarism, authoritarianism and what looks increasingly like a return to imperialism.

    There never was anything threatening about the European institutions and they always were quite open to Russian cooperation. It’s just been a constant story of reaching a hand out to have to bitten off or to be slapped in the face.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,919 ✭✭✭GM228


    No, there is clear precedent that it can't be done. Freezing assets is one thing, spending them is another.

    The US Supreme Court ruling was unlawful under international law, in 2019 the International Court of Justice found against the US as the ruling was contrary to International law and allowed Iran a right to reclaim the frozen assets, or at least stop them from being used for compensation.

    Post edited by GM228 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭Polar101


    They're really doing a great job, if the plan is to make sure no-one will want to travel to Russia (now or in the future).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,895 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Heineken wants to leave Russia but it's worried the Kremlin could seize its assets

    Plus they would no longer be able to claim they're refreshing the parts that other beers cannot reach...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Irpin had been liberated by the Ukrainian military another small victory



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,062 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I heard Carlsberg will be changing their slogan to 'Probably the best lager that Russia can no longer access.'.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m seeing a lot of “agreeing to phase out” type statements. Just end the damn schemes immediately. They’re something that shouldn’t exist.

    There is really no reason why those schemes can’t just close for new applicants tomorrow.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,770 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    yeah Id be reasonably sure its real at this stage but time will tell for certain. The UA govt has already warned of the potential of fakes and deep fakes but havent said anything along those lines this time which would suggest that they know its real by identifying their own soldiers in it. The pain and suffering of the Russian soldiers in it is definitely real, you can see the colour leaving the face of one of them and he is not far off bleeding to death.

    Its completely counter productive for Ukrainians to release it but it looks like it was a break down in discipline by them. Ive read a translation of the audio and it appears that the Russian soldiers might have been an artillery battalion who were shelling civilians and this is why the Ukrainians had such rage with them and shot them all in the legs.



This discussion has been closed.
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