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Velux Planning Permission

  • 14-10-2021 12:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    In the process of getting my attic converted (properly, with appropriate steel supports and fire compliance all to be signed off on by an engineer) and was wondering what are the chances of getting planning permission for a small Velux (over the stairs) at the front of the house? I live in a standard estate. I'm not sure the reasoning behind exemption for installing a velux on the rear but not the front? Can anyone answer that one? Is this an aesthetic thing?

    Failing that I have seen one or two homes in the estate who have velux windows on the front. I'm assuming as long as no one objects and you are not looking to sell the house you could "gamble" on doing one without permission? Probably not going to do it at the moment but is something I wondering about of the existing stairwell and new one are too dark. The nature of the project means that the stairwell won't reach the space at the rear of the house to avail of direct light from a velux.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Planning is required. Have you checked if the other houses made applications for theirs?

    You could consider a pre planning meeting with the local planner to discuss this. It's a free service and generally the planner will indicate how they would view a formal application. Details of pre planning meetings can be found on your local Councils website.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Thanks for the reply. Thought as much. Since I wont be doing it immediately (it's only a contingency plan) I'll let the dust settle on the development and see how we feel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I wouldnt see any great problem with getting permission for a small Velux. However its best to check it out in detail.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 doug82


    The velux to the rear is one of those non-sensical planning ‘rules’ that has become accepted over the years. In fact there is no exemption that specifically covers rooflights, unlike for example solar panels. Roof lights fall under a general exemption that allows changes to the exterior of a dwelling provided the changes are consistent with the character of the dwelling and neighbouring dwellings. That’s quite subjective, so to avoid risk, they are generally considered acceptable to the rear. There are a few houses in my own estate that put a roof light to the front without seeking permission. At worst they might have to seek retention if selling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Quote = At worst they might have to seek retention if selling.

    No, at worst they may have to reinstate the roof or face enforcement action.



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    +1. I would not make the assumption that planning permission or retention permission will be granted for roof windows to the front. I have applied for planning permission for roof windows to the front of houses in the past and have had planning permission refused!



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 doug82


    With planning it’s important to give a balanced view. We’ve all had rubbish decisions, but they shouldn’t set the bar. A small roof light serving a landing is highly unlikely to become an issue. Nothing is risk free, but it’s clear from the original post that there is an awareness of that. They asked for reasoning behind this particular exemption. I don’t think “planning is required” is particularly helpful without context.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Quote = I don’t think “planning is required” is particularly helpful without context

    What context would that be?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    For balance....

    I have applied for planning permission for roof windows to the front of houses in the past and have had planning permission granted!



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 doug82


    As I said, the poster was asking about the reasoning behind roof lights being considered exempt at rear but not at front. I gave context. Like many aspects of planning, it’s not clear-cut. In some situations ABP has declared roof lights at the front to be exempt. Similarly a rear rooflight could be very visible to the public domain and be considered not exempt. Context



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    15 years ago, Velux to the front was a big no no and I advised not to include them as the planners didn’t grant them generally.


    nowadays, the current generation of planners are ok with them. In the last few years, I’ve had all but one granted that had Velux to the front in Dublin.


    the weird one was in fingal. 2 houses within the same estate. One granted with Velux to front and one conditioned to remove them. That’s currently at a-peak stage with ABP though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Thanks. But the OP was talking about a Velux on the front of the roof. Aesthetics would be the reason alright



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 doug82




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    ABP decision in this morning. Agreed with our appeal and instructed the LA to remove the condition that removed the 2 Velux from the front elevation. Great news.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    As an aside:


    Away from the office ATM, does anyone have a quick reference to the old ABP case allowing roof windows to the rear of a roof surface as exempted development?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    Thank you D.

    Just keeping my mind active while away from my AI brain. It's a case of 'when you know something', but you need backup. :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5 JamTeber



    Hi Muffler,

    Any chance you could repost, or post in another form, the 3rd link on attic conversion - its not opening. Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭raxy


    Just out of curiosity, how much would it cost to get planning permission to put velux to the front of the house? I've read on other posts you need to get drawings done etc. Anyone who has gone through with it what did it cost? I'm assuming it doesn't matter on the number of windows?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Depends on where you are and who you use and if you can get someone at the moment.

    Newspaper ad, OSi maps, printing etc

    Could be circa €1500 all in for a small independent person to do the job including costs and fees.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    If you can get a qualified Construction Professional in Private Practice with Professional Indemnity Insurance to do Planning Permission for a Velux for €1,500 — please please pass their details on to me. 😂😂😂😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,556 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Gumbo said €1,500 for a small independent person to do it. You don't have to be in private practice with insurance for something like this. Anyone can submit a planning permission, it's just best to have someone who has experience or knowledge of planning, drawings, information required etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    Your getting your Attic converted.

    Do not allow any Builder to decide on the Specification is Works.

    You are going to spend a substantial amount of money and therefore you need a Construction Professional to design the Specification of Works, and detail Drawings of the Attic Design.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,556 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Absolutely 100% agree. The works should be specified, inspected and certified by a competent, experienced and insured professional. But that's not required for planning permission. Unless the proposed velux windows are a complex or very large size, then the planning for standard velux windows could be done by anyone and a registered professional could specify the works required after planning has been granted.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    We are talking about planning permission here, not the construction stage.

    I stand by my original post.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    Techdiver

    Before you spend any money I recommend that you should seek advice in relation to your proposed Attic development.

    Technical Guidance Document ‘F’ Ventilation (2019) of the Building Regulations requires that - suggested room heights in Attic Living Rooms as shown in the Diagrams-

    If you cannot achieve these suggested heights of habitable rooms (or near enough) - you may find it difficult to get an Engineer to Certify the Attic Development to be in Compliance with the Building Regulations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    Techdiver

    You could make an application for a Section 5 Declaration of Exemption for your proposed Velux

    I have used this successfully on a number of occasions for Velux Rooflights.

    I attach an Application Form for this for the Cork County Council as an example.

    you can visit your local Authority Planning Dept, or Google it and download the form.

    It is basically an application, requesting the Local Planning Dept to confirm that your proposed Velux - is, or is not, - an Exempt Development.

    You could phone the Planning Dept. Get the name and email of the Local Executive Planner and email them in relation to the proposed Velux. They should be able to confirm if it is appropriate for you to submit a Section 5 Planning Application.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    You dont need approval from the local planner to submit a Section 5 application.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    Muffler

    I fully understand planning permission. Section 5 Application is for Exempt Development.

    The Planner may tell you that you are waisting your time making a Section 5 Application, because a Velux to the front of the Roof requires Planning Permission.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Can i ask is it complicated architect plans etc or is it a simple process...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    A Section 5 application in relation to a Velux to the front will be a waste of time and money. There are no exemptions for Velux to the front so therefore the decision will be that the addition of the Velux constitutes development and thus, requires planning permission.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Simple process.

    where are you based?

    I can send you some examples of herniated planning applications for front Velux.

    15 years ago, it used to be a grey area if you’d get planning for them, but now a days, with the new generation of planners, they seem to get granted more often than not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Thanks as i do not need but like to know... i have a velux that was built with the house...



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Then it may have planning as part of the original grant. Is it a one off or part of an estate?

    My first house had 4 Velux to front as the attic space was a bedroom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    I put on a side extension with a velux. Am i in trouble? Wasnt included in drawing. Not over looking neighbours. Just main road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭brookers


    Hi I can't believe this post is here as we are currently doing a planning permission for roof windows that did not have planning permission and so are seeking retention. we are doing it ourselves as got quotes of upwards 3,500 plus vat. We live in Dublin. You have to submit drawings for the house, site layout, drawings for the velux, if houses around, measurements to the adjoining properties etc, fairly detailed all by six copies etc. In the council they have a place you can go to get validation before you send it in. I followed the guidelines you can print off and also what my original architect did when he sent in planning for our house. Im nearly there with it. just have to write a letter and download the osi, get it printed. The only thing which I'm a little confused by are the scales. On my drawings they are 1:100 but I see the council say not less then 1:1000 and 1:2500. I will be printing them on A3.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Best of luck. Thats a joke for a poxy velux. Were they part of an extention or attic conversion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    Brokers.

    I'm glad that you have pointed this out. A planning application for an existing Velux is very detailed and time consuming.

    How long is your roof with the Velux completed



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Your plans / drawings will be fine at 1:100. Site layout plan should be at 1:200 - 1:500 and the location map for an urban area should be 1:1000. The 1:2500 referred to is for location maps in rural areas. Printing on A3 is fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Its no more detailed or time consuming than any other job. Im surprised you think it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Is the velux to the front or rear? Im assuming front but it generally isnt a problem. You will need to get it sorted out at some stage so as to avoid any issues in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Side. We have main road in estate to the side of extension so no neighbours. I take it thats the same as front. Ok thanks. Engineer signed off on build without any issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,556 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    No, if it's to the side, it's to the side regardless of whether there's a road to the side as well.

    Velux's to the side are a bit of a grey area; they're exempt to the rear and require planning to the front, but it's never really been confirmed one way or the other about rooflights to the side. However, in my experience they're generally considered to be exempt.

    If it was done as part of a side extension, your side extension would have required planning, and so the velux should have been included as part of that anyway. I would say first port of call would be to check with the engineer who signed off on the build and just confirm with them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    This might be useful to someone in the future and while its a wee bit dated it is still relevant - a 2008 Section 5 referral to ABP re 5 velux windows on a rear extension was determined to be exempted development



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭MakersMark




  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭brookers


    It was an after thought when we started to build 7 years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭brookers




  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭brookers


    Thank. you so much. Trying to do it and working also. Easy money though for a planning consultant or architect.



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