sick of propping up non performing farms

happy days, a lot of that goes straight back into the economy, so all good

Sounds like you are agreeing with me. Yes the market should be allowed to operate normally, and yes that would mean higher prices. But eventually it would also be more efficient, the lads who run a good farm and a tight ship would see the benefit as all the poor operators drop out of the market. Farmers as suppliers would gain more leverage instead of being beholden to the supermarkets.

No it probably won't happen, just as with the health service governments have created a problem too big for them to fix. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

Great point re the money that is brought into the country. For balance alot of our inputs are however imported also.

Do you have a number or percentage for “sizeable”?

Ultimately the problem is that people want to eat too many times a week and repeatedly so. Nor have they any interest in changing that filthy habit.

We certainly can continue to rely on the Ukraine and Russia for grain, as can the rest of the world. Vlad is apolitical when it comes to resources and leverage. Maybe we need to completely hand over supply, even more than now, to Russia and China etc

Subsidisation goes on across the board with most industries in some format, be it tax breaks (multinationals), infrastructural, (including electrical supply, services, roads, ports), direct job investements (IDA), foreign diplomatic backup.

Investement in jobs that produce goods and services sold abroad return handsomely for the country. Its really not important that the primary producer (where most of these subsidies are targeted) makes profit, rather than they can keep producing.

Regardless of my farm profit, if I sell €200,000 product from my farm, typically €700,000 is brought into the country on the back of it.

Countries can only survive by selling stuff...money in..

Fair point as we are discovering with fert this year.. but we will adapt and contribute a hell of a lot more than the vast majority of social welfare spend..how much of that 33 billion is spent on hap payments going to pension funds and the wealthy among us and farmers are the ones bothering the op.

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Something that most people seem ignorant about it food prices...if we made it so farmers had to turn a profit without government help, the cost of food would be vastly higher than it currently is..

In my opinion farm grant payments have ruined farming.

Go back 30 to 35 years ago and here in west of Ireland a fairly average few week old calf was going for 300 punts plus and meat was affordable in shops.

Now a similar class of animal at same age might go for 450 euro. A tiny rise in prices over 35 years yet diesel and everything else is likey at least 10 times the price now.

This is only sustainable due to grants.

Now shop meat prices have not stayed down at 1980s prices - they have gone up with cost of living so I can only assume that the meat factories, distributors and retailers are making a mint.

I don't think meat needs to be produced so cheaply in order for meat to be affordable in shops.

I think there is enough margin the system that would allow farmers be paid reasonably and the meat in the supermarket shelf still affordable.

Grant aids allows prices be pushed Into the ground.

Subsidies distort trade, but without them we will end up ( like pig and poultry ) with a smaller number of farms chasing scale. This is never ending. Although as a farmer I do get tired of predictable response of farm organisations to every "crises" by looking for extra money.

Actually currently the supports the majority of farmers get via CAP are very modest with 80% of the money going to large industrial operators. Its even more extreme in the US in terms of the USDA budget and farm numbers there. Alot of countries in Asia have huge budgets to support the likes of rice production - indeed their experience has been similar to the old CAP with increasing levels of production support leading to falling margins for farmers and dumping of product on adjacent markets leading to price pressure for farmers there!!

"play the system" intimates doing something illegal? The EU have been pushing farmers in the direction of minimizing production for years ( gone that way myself ) but we see what happens re food security for ourselves depending on importing cheap food from elsewhere

To be honest if any business person needs to be told this they need to rethink their goal in life, too many farmers playing the numbers game killing themselves with work when they could "play the game" and take life a bit easier