Russia - threadbanned users in OP

@Wibbs

Because war is an existential matter, (for the directly sides involved, at least) it doesn't really surprise me that the search for objective truth goes out the window. Self-preservation and self-interest become paramount when fighting to preserve your life and way of life. Whatever can buoy the morale and minimise the enemy will be used. The objective truth of it is that we're all going to die eventually and fighting over a patch of ground will only hasten that for some. This, however, has not really stopped humans from waging wars for thousands of years.

It is, in my opinion at least, a good thing that we live in a relatively free society where questioning things is tolerated, but that, as we've seen here and elsewhere, is also being used as a cover by bad actors to plant little thought seeds and discord, in among the many people asking honest questions. Questions are good - up to a point, but they should achieve answers, and when it's a case of war or some impending crisis, these should be achieved sooner rather than later. There isn't endless time to moralise and philosophise.

Nato should step in and do something or leave the fold and allow Ukraine align with like minded countries such as Poland in this prelude to WW3

Neither do I. Any use of nuclear weapons or the threat of their use would oblige the UK and USA and the UN Security Council to become involved.

If they did not authorise military action to support Ukraine it would send the message to every other nation that if you want security you need your own nuclear weapons and do not give them up under any circumstances.

The Russian Federation will not want to risk bringing the UK, USA and other UN countries into the war.

I think this is more along the lines of what the West might have to do to apply pressure on Russia.

However this only works effectively if we can get buy-in from the likes of India and China; otherwise they'll just pick up the slack at tidy little discounts. And if China and India start playing ball economically with Russia you can bet military assistance mightn't be that far behind.

If the West weakens itself too much to try and in turn weaken Russia we could leave ourselves in a precarious position in wider geopolitical terms.

Naturally I haven't a clue what I'm talking about; but as I've said before none of this horrendous **** is happening in a vacuum and there are more entities than Russia who have it out for Ukraine and the West in general.

President Duda: According to @ZelenskyyUa, Russians from Syria are coming to Ukraine, and mercenaries from the Middle East supporting RU. Syrians are the most numerous. In this context, more NATO assistance to Ukraine is needed. But this also illustrates Russia's weakness and is an interesting signal for Turkey

the war in Syria must be over, Syrian regime has lost much

I do wonder if we shouldn't start sanctioning Western companies who continue to do business in Russia; especially anything related to luxury brands, electronics, non-essential foodstuffs like alcohols and soft drinks and confectioneries etc. Not sure how feasible that is or if that would just be a part of a complete trade ban.

In any case it seems like we should be firing off a new round of sanctions to remind Russia that this isn't going away anytime soon; targeting the oligarchs and senior politicians doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Would the Polish army occupying Lviv and surrounding countryside be a good strategy? This should be clearly notified to the Russians as purely a peacekeeping force.

This would prevent the Russian army from going right up to the Polish border. It prevents Russia from absorbing the entire Ukrainian state. It provides a safe base for the continuation of the Ukrainian government. It gives leverage to the west in negotiating a settlement.

or trump makes a comeback and **** hits the fan

Because the problem is not that NATO has no reason to go to war with Russia; it's that it does not want to go to war with Russia.

Aside from the fact that NATO and the majority of the democracies in the West are supposed to value the rule of law.

There's a distinct difference between caring and being aware that actions have consequences.

If there's an apartment block on fire and filled with thick smoke but people are trapped there's basically nothing you can do; if you go in without equipment you're likely to become overcome yourself. So now not only have you failed to rescue anyone trapped inside you're now actively hindering the effort to save those people when the fire brigade eventually do arrive.

Just because you don't run in to almost certain injury or death does not mean that you don't care. Likewise if you're a bystander trying to tell other people not to go in it doesn't mean you don't care; and the same applies here.

Just because people like me are arguing against direct NATO intervention doesn't mean we don't care; it means that we can see the potential for much more significant consequences both for Ukraine and the rest of the world.

Looks kinda like there might be another page after that one; interesting that we don't get to see it?

I mean I don't know what the "shelf life" is for military gear but some of the Soviet stuff (as the name suggests) is from the 70s/80s and is still being used so...

NATO will not attack Russian forces over what is happening in Ukraine.

The strategy will be to supply a guerrilla warfare campaign of attrition at the same time isolating Russia economically and in international relations.

Yes, Germany offfered to send Ukraiine hundreds of 35 year old obsolete Strella anti-tank weapons before asking their military. When they checked on them, the storage cases were so moldy they had to send people in protective clothing to get them out. Out of 2700 Germany promised, they ended up sending only 500. So if those photos are purporting to show dismayed Ukrainians shocked at what they got, they might just be propagand. The Ukrinians on learning they were obsolete, said said send them anyway, so they wouldn't have been surprised or annoyed at what they got.

The meme rolleth on.

Wasn't that region once part of the Polish/Lithuanian empire?