Russia - threadbanned users in OP

I think that the city provided a tactical advantage - tanks and armor quite useless in urban areas -

Why do you keep talking of NATO?? NATO as a military alliance are hardly relevant in this situation. It is not NATO who have invaded a sovereign state. No point at the moment banging on about NATO this and NATO that. If there is to be intervention and many of us hope that it will come soon, it should be from a collective of European states, whether EU members or not.

As are many non NATO nations (including Russia believe it or not), but just like UN missions it's on a peace keeping basis.

I think the question facing the Ukrainians in Mariupol is stark

• Keep fighting and hold up the Russian Units in the area - potentially inflict more casualties on them
• Risk the lives of remaining civilians if Russia decides to level the city (whether by Aerial bombing or Artillery)
• Surrender and perhaps taken prisoner - ominous
• Attempt a break out which seems impossible given the situation

I cannot see them surrendering anyway - I guess they could try a break out but exhaustion must be endemic at this stage

the above map shows a civilian airport in the area to the west - but i suspect they have nothing capable of getting out - Also several reports say the Russians are dominant in the air over this region

This is horrid stuff -

I'm ciriticising them for only acting when its in their own self interest and having zero respect for any human life bar that of their own citizens (and often only in the interests of their elite). Basic human decency would have seen them intervene in any of the conflicts I mentioned. They're always quite happy to start a fight or egg it on but are rarely anywhere to be seen once it goes out of control or spills into other areas. I don't see whats contradictory about wanting an organisation arranged to defend to actually stand up for some principles which they profess to be the guardians of.

It's the same as asking why other countries should send their sons and daughters to die in Ireland because we haven't been bothered paying for the equipment for out defense forces to defend us

Reagan,Bush,Clinton, Bush Jr., Obama, Trump… would have any of the previous American presidents intervened with a more severe military approach ?

I find it horrible that the world is standing on the sidelines while people are being slaughtered/ raped and having their homes taken away from them.

They have held them off for 8 years so far and despite being outmanned and out gunned ,they fought like lions and nobody could fault them at this stage if they pulled out , but this is a sign of desparation on Russias behalf ,they flattened the area and still haven't beaten the Ukrainian

Awww *blushes

Seriously though, my only "advantage" is that I'm German myself, meaning that I can easily read a lot of the primary literature and know a lot of the subconscious subtext that German people would know but that would remain alien to Irish, American or other "foreigners" for lack of a better word that haven't lived in German society for at least the better part of a decade. I'm not a military man though, just an interested amateur, so I always advise anyone to double-check if you're having doubts.

One more thing that might add to the logistical stress for the Bundeswehr Germany is currently in the process of standing up roughly 15,000 soldiers for the German contribution to the NATO Response Force. The requirement for these units is to be fully equipped for war, which means that the number of available weapons systems and infantry weapons, such as Stinger missiles or the aforementioned Panzerfaust 3 is further reduced. Interestingly, Germany has also, for the first time in its post-war history, triggered what it calls "National Alert Measures" that include the prioritisation of military traffic on roads, railways, waterways and airports. At the same time, all of the webcams that usually show traffic on Germany's Autobahn network were turned off for security reasons. So, there are things happening in Germany that a lot of people outside the country might not have on their radar.

Ominous words - what are they planning?

Yes caused by you!

I think you have this the wrong way round comrade