Chancers in bike shops

byrnem31 · 18-03-2022 10:38pm #1

I left my defy into a well known shop Wednesday for a service at €75. Its basically a tune up. They called me back saying the rear hub was lose and needed fixing, complete bull as its a brand new wheel replaced under warranty that was checked by the other shop i bought the bike from. The stickers are still on the wheel its that new. They said i needed a new casette and chain, more bull as theres only about 500klm on current one again which was only checked by the other shop. Its in perfect condition. And i needed new cables for a 2 year old bike. Plus, they wanted €50 to bleed the brakes. All in 300 to 400 quids worth of work depending.

I asked this shop very recently for a trade in and they said my bike was immaculate and offered me very good money for it. (Didn't do the deal as my go to shop can get the bike earlier). But all of a sudden it need loads of work.

I told them to service it, ie. quick tune up for the €75 i was quoted and new pads. €109 in total. I didnt get the other work done that was suggested and low and behold the bike is fine and has never been better.

I dont usually use this shop for servicing but i could not get into the city centre to my usual shop so was stuck. Never again. Cycling is gone like the car trade, full of chancers and Del boy sales men.

I flagged the rear wheel with him in that its fine and told him to look at the stickers on it, its a brand new wheel checked by giant and the dealer. He didnt really have an answer for that one.

Be aware, and always ask for a call before any additional work is done.

Seve OB · 18-03-2022 10:48pm

Sounds like *********. They pulled same with me last year. Gobshite here though paid them for it all!

after a recent visit there to buy a pair of runners (which I posted about in running forum) I will never darken their doorstep again. Brazen chancers.

byrnem31 · 18-03-2022 10:57pm

Not there but i wont be naming the shop. What is a fair price for a service that tightens up everything, ie, tune up, and gives it a bit of lube where needed ? I think €75 is steep.

magicbastarder · 18-03-2022 11:19pm

name of bike shop edited out as they were accused in the wrong in this instance.

cletus · 18-03-2022 11:20pm

I suppose it depends on what you expect to be done. What is a "tune up"?

18-03-2022 11:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118803859#Comment_118803859

That's effectively €75 of labour? nothing replaced in terms of cables or fluid or brake pads?

byrnem31 · 18-03-2022 11:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804007#Comment_118804007

No parts, just labour for tightening everything back up and making sure gears and that are changing smoothly.

magicbastarder · 18-03-2022 11:42pm

that's above gold service level for this particular place (and platinum means full cable replacement)

https://duffcycles.com/repairs/

19-03-2022 12:15am

€14 euro to fix a puncture? Surely thats a new tube and not actually mending the old tube?

byrnem31 · 19-03-2022 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804049#Comment_118804049

I can give my 2006 civic a basic service myself for €50, oil, oilfilter and air filter change. Im just not great working with bikes at all, they are very finnicky with small parts. I have stubby fingers and no patience. So €75 for a tune up with no parts provided, to me seems steep.

stevencn88 · 19-03-2022 12:49am

Asked my new LBS about getting the bike "serviced" and was told minimum €120 just for labour. Chain, front chain rings, jockey wheels and rear block all needed "replacing".... all replaced in November (so they can get f****d). Bought a chain wear tool last week and the chain may as well be new! Crazy carry on altogether.

gn3dr · 19-03-2022 1:08am

Key part of cycling for me is being able to do all maintenance myself, I mean everything. Maybe it's a factor of growing up in the 70's and 80's or maybe I'm a control freak but there is no way I'd give any bikes I own into a shop to service or repair. It's not hard.

However if you do want to send your bike into a shop for repair then you have to consider the shop overheads as well. So as mentioned - €14 to fix a puncture - is it that bad when you factor in paying the guy, rent , carrying spares etc. If you owned the shop how much would you charge to fix a puncture if let say it took your employee 20 mins to do it?.

Of course a shop telling you your chain is worn when it clearly isn't, well that's another story.

19-03-2022 7:57am

Find a LBS where the mechanics/owners are into cycling/racing and get to know them. The guy in my LBS is a font of knowledge and always gives me tips and likes working my bikes as they are in good condition and well looked after. He always gives me a fair price and never does anything extra without ringing me first.

Last time I wandered into a bike shop where they didn't know me, the chancer of a mechanic tried to replace the rear cassette and chain which were pretty much brand new. Seems like any issues with the drive train and their go to is to replace the cassette and chain. It was my winter bike and he thought I didn't know what I was talking about, but his whole demeanour changed when he realised I did (kind of).

cletus · 19-03-2022 8:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804318#Comment_118804318

Exactly. People seem to only factor in the cost of the item being replaced. The shop has to cover the cost of the item being replaced, the wages of the employee doing the job, rents, rates and other bills, and try and turn a profit too.

In the fix a puncture example above, a new tube is, what, €4. That leaves a tenner being charged for the labour. Our national minimum wage is €10.50 an hour. Now I know that it doesn't take an hour to change a tube, but it takes part of the hour, so part of the tenner is wages, part is running the shop, providing tools etc, and part is profit for the owner.

I know I've said this on the forum before, but really, most of the jobs on a bike are very easy to do. Whatever about jobs that require you to have specific tool, a "tune up" (which, according to the OP consists of making sure no fasteners are loose, and lubing the chain) should be doable by just about anyone.

If you really have no mechanical sympathy, a torque wrench will cost less than the €75 charged for the service.

The reality is, if you're not able to/ not happy to learn how to work on your bike, then you have to accept that there's a cost involved. If shops aren't covering their costs, they close down

Bikespeeds YouTube channel is great if you want to see what goes into the various types of service a bike shop might carry out on a bike.

byrnem31 · 19-03-2022 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804539#Comment_118804539

I do have a go to shop. I just couldnt get to it on the day as its city centre based. I learned my lesson, stick to what i know.

dahat · 19-03-2022 10:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804186#Comment_118804186

Tubes are near €7 in a shop now so €12-€14 for a new tube & fit isn’t the worst price in the world to be fair

sham58107 · 19-03-2022 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804803#Comment_118804803

What LBS are you using , €3.50- € 3.99 for Conti on Chain Reaction . assuming LBS buys cheaper €14 euro is including an awful labour charge for say 10 min job.

whodafunk · 19-03-2022 10:57am

I think I know exactly the shop you are talking about…

magicbastarder · 19-03-2022 10:59am

last time i asked, several years ago, my LBS had a minimum price for labour (though i don't know if this included fixing punctures); that €15 applied to replacing a spoke (didn't charge for the spoke) or swapping out a BB (i had the replacement BB, which they'd sold me a year earlier)

Searchers · 19-03-2022 11:02am

I prefer to get my bike serviced in a LBS, and don’t mind paying the labour for a professional job that gives me that extra bit of confidence on long spins. However, I don’t think I’ve ever left a bike in any shop and not been told I need a chain and cassette replacement!

magicbastarder · 19-03-2022 11:09am

i dropped a bike into duff cycles about six years ago (was €30 for a standard service then); a bike which had been in storage for years. when i picked it up, they told me that they'd barely needed to do a thing with it, just a bit of lubrication and minor gear adjustment.

maybe i should feel slightly cheated in that they still charged me the €30 even though they explicitly told me it was an easy one.

IIRC they now charge a mandatory €10 cleaning fee if you drop a bike in which is filthy, before they'll start to work on it.

cletus · 19-03-2022 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804825#Comment_118804825

The cheapest I've seen a tube in a bricks and mortar shop is about 4.50 in Halfords. Markup on items would, I would imagine, be in and around 30-40%, so let's say 40%, which leaves cost of the tube at €2.70.

That means the labour cost is €11.30. let's say the mechanic is on minimum wage (anther discussion). The 10 minutes they were working on the puncture costs €1.75

That leaves €9.55 for the owner to pay rates, bills, and take a profit themselves.

Now, those figure obviously change if the shop don't charge wholesale for their parts (there's no reason why the parts should be supplied at cost), and if the fella on the spanners gets more than minimum wage. Let's say he's on €15 an hour. Now that 10 minute job is costing €2.50 in wages, and the the tube is costing €4.

Now the owner has €7.50 to pay bills, rates, and make a profit.

Personally, I think anyone paying somebody to change a tube on a bike is mad, but I can understand the cost involved if it's a service that you provide, and people are willing to use

AndrewJRenko · 19-03-2022 11:39am

I've had the reverse problem with Joe Daly's in Dundrum, where I'm almost embarrassed at the extent of stuff they insist on doing for free, or they say 'sure we'll just charge you for the parts'.

ted1 · 19-03-2022 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804919#Comment_118804919

It’s not about the 10 mins time to change it, it’s about the 50 minutes paying a staff to be available to change it ;)

cletus · 19-03-2022 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805057#Comment_118805057

I get that too. I'm trying to break down the numbers the way that other posters are suggesting. Obviously workers aren't paid in 10 minute blocks or anything. But even if you break it down the way I did, it's not exactly extortionate.

That's obviously not condoning upselling on parts that aren't needed

Weepsie · 19-03-2022 12:18pm

I generally have the opposite experience and have built up a relationship that means I trust them to do something if it needs doing.

Sometimes I'll ask for something very specific to be done so they know that's all that needs doing. Other times it's a whatever you think needs to be done and they'll go ahead and is their judgement

I've paid a lot less than I thought I would for some jobs and more for others so it all balances out

Working class heroes · 19-03-2022 12:19pm

Yis are some miserable shower alright 😁

19-03-2022 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804967#Comment_118804967

Hasn't been my neck of the woods for a good few years but I'd have had similar experience of them even back when they were on main st. or being handed tools to do the job myself on a couple of occasions when the lads would have been away at the Rás and shop was short handed. It's funny I reckon that kind service led me to spending a few thousand there over the years I was living around that way.

eeeee · 19-03-2022 12:43pm

I also have the opposite problem. I've never had a cassette or chain recommendation, but I only go to a bike shop for things I can't do myself. I've only had that stuff done when I've specifically asked for it.

€15 to change a tube isn't extortionate, employees, rent, rates, insurance, tax etc etc etc don't get charged only when someone's in the shop. And the skill and knowledge of a good mechanic is worth more than the minimum wage.

If you can't service you're bike you have to pay for the expertise to do so.

That said I've had sexist moments in bike shops - rolled in for an emergency ass saver of a wet day, to be told my bike was "very aggressive for a woman", and wouldn't I be more comfortable on something more upright, or a women's specific bike 🙄🙄 they're no longer open...

8valve · 19-03-2022 1:54pm

If you are paying over €40 to have your bike checked over and tuned up, you are paying too much. We charge €30.

Additional labour is €40 p/h. We're in South Tipp, in a small town; I'm reliably informed that some Dublin shops charge 60-75 per hour labour, as that is what the public are willing to pay up there.

Check-over should include a check of literally every nut and bolt on the bike for tightness, gear tune and brake tune, tyres pumped.

Anything extra will incur charge for parts and additional labour, naturally.

If I get a customer who is doing plenty of mileage, I stick a chain checker in the bike while they are standing there after dropping in the bike; that way, we can agree at the outset on whether a chain or chain/cassette are required.

If I come across anything serious while checking the bike, a phone call is made to the customer with an estimate of the parts/labour cost before any additional work commences.

With regards to tube prices online and from large chainstores; they buy their tubes in the thousands...we buy a box of 20/30 at a time. From an independent Irish wholesaler. Who also has to make a few bob. I can assure you we're not getting them as cheaply as the big boys.

Local bike shops: use 'em or lose 'em, folks.

Wishbone Ash · 19-03-2022 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804967#Comment_118804967

I suffered a mechanical very close to their shop a few years ago. I chanced my arm to see if they could sort me out. They did it on the spot and wouldn't take a penny for it.

I'm astounded that some people think €14 is too expensive to sort out a puncture. If I couldn't do it myself I'd think that was very reasonable. The same people would probably think nothing of spending €4 on a coffee or €7 on a pint. The mind boggles.

fat bloke · 19-03-2022 3:18pm

Fixed price service "packages" - bronze/silver/gold are a pet hate of mine. Check what needs to be checked, fix what needs to be fixed, charge me for that.

Dr_Colossus · 19-03-2022 3:56pm

"I told them to service it, ie. quick tune up for the €75 i was quoted and new pads. €109 in total. I didnt get the other work done that was suggested and low and behold the bike is fine and has never been better."

Nothing to add as I've never brought a bike to a shop electing to do any work/repairs myself with parts bought online but based on above account I think it was a mistake getting them to service it at all. I would have thanked them for the call and told them not to do anything and you'd collect the bike immediately. Then in person ask for an explanation about the unnecessary items and give the custom to your usual bike shop instead. Since only a tune up or service required it was hardly an emergency so reward the good bike shops of which there are plenty but customers shouldn't reward blatant attempts at rip offs and vote with their bikes.

byrnem31 · 19-03-2022 6:59pm

Mechanics in these shops must be on a commission similar to bike sales. The more they sell you, they make a little commission on.

Anyway, lesson learned. I have 2 kids with disabilities and she works weekends and nights so time is extremely limited which is why i could not get into the city centre shop. The pads did need replacing so at least i have it ready for the morning for a quick spin. But i wont be back to that shop again.

beggars_bush · 20-03-2022 12:21am

Nothing worse than a LBS knowing they've a monopoly on bike servicing in the area and taking the piss.

The LBS has begun to swing that way. I'm not impressed

Pawwed Rig · 20-03-2022 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805443#Comment_118805443

The last time I had a puncture the repair kit cost 7 or 8 euro and then when I realised that the tube was like a sieve I had to retube anyway. Would have happily paid the €14 to get it sorted in the first place.

jimbobaloobob · 20-03-2022 12:26am

Don’t forget to add in their rent /rates/ wages/ electricity/ insurance and countless other overheads that are unavoidable. Not saying it is or isn’t a fair price but don’t be little the work as a drop of oil here and there if you haven’t the skill set to do it. Would you not take it on yourself to learn how to service your own bikes?

FintanMcluskey · 20-03-2022 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805443#Comment_118805443

100%.

There is nobody in bike maintenance running a viable business off the back of fixing punctures at €14.

If you haven't been able to learn the basic skills to do the job yourself, unfortunately you have to pay those who can what they want to do the job

monkeyslayer · 20-03-2022 12:15pm

Similar experience here, I can do a lot of my own maintenance but do enjoy having a good pro do the work once a year. Like having an expert guitar tuner or something. But after similar nonsense as the above re bb, chain etc one shop then charged me 30 euro just to find/Google new headset bearings for me online, and they only found one of the two components. They couldn't source the other which I then quite easily found after some enquiries and they still charged me for it. Was a good shop, nice guys etc but I felt a bit ripped off and taken for a mug. They scratched the **** of some of the parts too, like they'd tried to unscrew it in the dark.

byrnem31 · 20-03-2022 12:18pm

Ive no problem changing punctures.

I think some people are missing the point of the thread and its started to drift into a discussion about overheads and punctures.

The issue i have with the shop is trying to tell me i needed €100s worth of parts and labour which the bike did not. Ie, rear hub is lose, no its not, new cassette and chain needed, no it doesn't etc.

cletus · 20-03-2022 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808888#Comment_118808888

I think the conversation moved on because nobody here is going to to argue about a bike shop misleading customers in order to upsell parts.

As a result, the €75 you paid to have fasteners tightened and the chain oiled became the more interesting point

20-03-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808888#Comment_118808888

I thought the exact same thing while reading the thread. Gone totally off the point.

I'm a bit like the OP, I have three very young kids and don't have the time (or the tools in some cases) to do jobs that go beyond basic maintenance and am happy to get this work done by a good bike mechanic. Any spare time I have is spent riding my bike rather than fixing it. I can fix punctures, replace a chain, swap out a cassette and sort out rim brakes but anything else and I'm wasting time I don't have.

I had a similar experience to the OP last year when I couldn't get to my LBS and had to use a new place, which attempted to replace a load of parts that were in perfect condition and then to charge me a fortune for not doing a whole pile else. They got short shrift and I have never been back. I can only imagine how much these people rip off those who don't have a clue about bikes.

My last trip to my LBS, they located and fixed a creak in the BB, replaced a gear cable, fixed an issue with the chain dropping off while in the smallest cog of the rear cassette and re-centred my disc rotor after I accidentally pulled the brake while on the turbo. Only noticed later that he greased a good few parts and tuned up other bits while at it. All for 67e by a super mechanic.

He got a tip and a five star review for his trouble and the bike rides like a dream now. I only go to him with specific jobs and he usually gives me a quote when dropping off and a call if he finds anything else.

Wildly Boaring · 20-03-2022 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805385#Comment_118805385

Used live in north Cork, almost Tip.

Some great LBSs about down there.

Was always very happy with Roches in Mitchelstown. Very similar pricing to you and never pushed parts on me.

Do most stuff myself these days. But need to sort a shop near Drogheda for future stuff if I dont have time

CramCycle · 20-03-2022 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804825#Comment_118804825

That's not the real world though, the LBS have to buy the stock, hold it, run the risk of the cost if damaged, pay for holding all the bare minimum stock they may need etc. As others have said, €14 is fine if you can't do it. I think Harrys used to have the price for fitting the tube on it. I went in thinking the place was extortionate for €14 a tube but when I told them I'd fit it myself they only charged me half. I realised then they were probably sick of people giving out for the fitting charge. Wait till people find out how much a bottle of coke costs and how much they charge in a pub for one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805163#Comment_118805163

You probably dropped one of them on your commute and they were trying to slow you down a bit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805385#Comment_118805385

People will miss them when they are gone. None near me but my local lawn mower repair guy is big into bikes so I use him if I can't do it myself. It's great as not only does he do a good job, you always get a great story from the road racing scene 40 years ago.

Large bottle small glass · 20-03-2022 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809276#Comment_118809276

Word is you always had a mechanical on Good Fridays☺️

New Square

https://maps.app.goo.gl/JuUftzTdpw7e8HDZ8

Wildly Boaring · 20-03-2022 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810166#Comment_118810166

Great setup alright

Weepsie · 20-03-2022 8:52pm

OP, you previously had a thread about the wheels which basically said they were a problem (themselves being pretty new). You said in that too that the rear hub had a common problem.

The warranty replacement wheels could be equally crap? And they could be eagle eyed enough to know this too, rather than just pulling a fast one.

A friend today sent me a video of his Giant PR2 wheels that sounded awful and they don't have an awful lot of use.

Rest of the stuff, doesn't sound great in fairness though. Though replacing cables after 2 years isn't remotely outrageous.

CramCycle · 20-03-2022 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811199#Comment_118811199

PR2s are useless from the day they leave the factory, most places would save time if they instantly returned them as warranty repairs before they sold them

byrnem31 · 20-03-2022 9:40pm

The rear pr2 was replaced for a brand new one that was checked by giant and the shop. I took it home and put the bike on a turbo over the winter so it was not used. I had it out today and it was fine.

Pr2s are crap as they are notorious for giving trouble. However, when they do work fine, guys have put 20k on them with no issues. They are very hit and miss though. They either work very well or very bad. My original wheel was bad from factory. The rear hub was over tightened on a batch of defy and liv models which giant admitted. There was an intermittent banging noise coming from it, particularly when stopped and taking off. The giant warranty claim was an excellent service in fairness. I emailed giant and they sent a replacement with no issues at all. It took months though due to pandemic and supply shortages.

When somone is trying to sell you a load of crap you dont need and try to tell you a wheel that was checked by a bike shop is faulty when its not, i go with my gut instinct and think its fine. And today the wheel worked perfect.

I have an agree c62 mechanical ultegra ordered for june with a lovely set of hunt aero 33s carbon waiting to go onto it sitting in the wardrobe. So the pr2s will hopefully be a distant memory.

Macy0161 · 21-03-2022 10:48am

Well I replaced the rear hub on my PR2's (with Cliff, so trust the mechanic) and it wasn't long being ropey again (far quicker than it should've been). Accelerated my purchase of new (to me) wheels. Basically, I wouldn't necessarily rule out the PR2's. And yes, I've put thousands into them, and have the hubs go quick - it seems to be pot luck.

@8valve I'd hazard a guess rent is significantly more in Dublin than where you are, so that really has to be factored in.

Over the winter I did a full service on one of my bikes. Seems to have gone ok, but at the same time the hours it took me v dropping into Harry's in the morning and collecting in the evening wasn't worth it really. I've moved job, so even though back in the office, so Harry's not that convenient unfortunately! Cliff is brilliant, but I was using them before and found them fine. I'll give the caveat that chain and cassette is one of the jobs I generally have always done myself, and then dropped in for the rest of the service and saying that they're done.

Wanderer78 · 21-03-2022 11:24am

just finished doing my own brakes and gears, disk and pad replacement with bleeding, new rear gear cable(internal routing), new dropper post(internal routing), made a bags of replacing bottom bracket, tis massed into the frame(press fit), one bearing exposed, it ll seize eventually. took my time at it, wasnt too bad at all, recommend giving it a good, some good resources on youtube

Chancers in bike shops

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