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State lost 10,000 Intel jobs due to planning system delays

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24

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    #32
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,128 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792608#Comment_118792608

    Probably because they are your colleagues and they know you.

    As 1000 randomers on streets anywhere between Belgium and Bulgaria and see do they know.



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    #33
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792608#Comment_118792608

    I must agree. While I am based in Dublin I work for a European corporation and have daily contact with a wide range of people throughout Western Europe. Even in the early days of Brexit there was no conversation (Even casual, enquiring) about Ireland leaving the EU. As a matter of fact, the only time I heard the term "eirexit - Shudder, what a terrible name) was here on Boards when farage was trying to kick up some interest in the concept.

    Of course there are many in Europe who are unsure of Ireland's situation regarding the UK. There are people in the UK who are confused about the matter. Just as there are people in Ireland confused about relationships between countries/regions in continental Europe. But I seriously doubt that anyone in continental Europe following Brexit to any degree would not be aware of the situation between Ireland and UK. Anyone with a passing interest knows that one of the main hurdles is goods North/South.



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    #34
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792140#Comment_118792140

    How fking well do you think these jobs are gonna pay. You honestly think it's enough for land and a house in an area that's already a commuter hub and land would skyrocket if the facility gets greenlit. That's before you factor in that every builder in the country already seems to be flat out and unavailable.

    Maybe after years of saving working that job but people won't have the money straight off.

    We lost out to Germany big massive Germany in a biding war. There is no big shock, conspiracy or blame to throw round. It just happens.



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    #35
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792642#Comment_118792642

    If they already confuse Ireland and the UK then how can they see Irexit as an eventuality ?

    That's a completely nonsense statement. They think we are the UK but also think we will leave the EU someday.



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    #36
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    This happens all the time, most MNC will have internal bidding wars when countries try to win specific contracts etc.

    The heading is a load of rubbish, the "State" didn't lose these jobs.

    Even if planning was fully granted you have countries all over the World giving all sort of incentives to these companies to get them to move the jobs to their country. No matter what Ireland does we only have a 5m population and are an island on the edge of Europe.

    If MNC's had their way the whole of Ireland would be one huge DC because we are one of the best countries to run DC's.


    Also I work daily with people all over Europe, I have never met a single person who confuses Ireland with UK. Yes I have heard Americans confuse Ireland with UK, saying we use the pound etc. But then again I have heard Americans getting confused with the UK and why they dont use the Euro



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    #37
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793041#Comment_118793041

    The Europeans who are most confused about the independent status of Ireland seem to be English people.

    Post edited by breezy1985 on


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    #38
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793063#Comment_118793063

    Well, the English have been signing since 1996 "It's coming home"....that kind of says it all really



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    #39
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,160 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792140#Comment_118792140

    We don't have 10k IT professionals sitting around waiting to take up those jobs. In fact no one has, there is a world wide shortage. So trading 10k jobs we can't staff in favour of a better environmental police we actually need is a no brainer.



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    #40
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793071#Comment_118793071

    I have no clue what the relevance of that soccer song is here tbh.



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    #41
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,005 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793094#Comment_118793094

    Bulk of those jobs would not be IT, but infact building trades and electricians. Again in short supply, but can be trained in large numbers.

    Trading 10k jobs for the status quo is not a win, its stagnating. The population of this country is growing - we need employment opportunities to grow to match



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    #42
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    The planning had absolutely nothing to do with this decision.

    It would have been irresponsible for Intel to build another huge factory in Ireland. Having all of their EU manufacturing in one country is far too risky. if there were any supply chain issues, security issues, economic issues just related to Ireland it would be hugely damaging.

    It would also get to the stage where Intel are too big for Ireland from an Irish risk perspective. If at any stage in the future Intel announced a 10% cut in workforce, we'd be looking at 2.5k+ job losses overnight.

    The irish government also would not give them the billions in subsidies they needed.

    All in all, I'm happy they didn't decide to build another factory here. Another 10k jobs? Sure we have tens of thousands of jobs already unable to be filled! So what would we do? Bring in foreigners and jack up house prices again? This isn't 2009, I don't get the insatiable demand for more jobs.

    And lastly, all the announcements yesterday saying Ireland loses out on new factory but wins 12bn in investment....that's old news. That's for their current build ongoing. And a big chunk of that money will be leaving the country anyways as the machines cost mega money. One machine alone could cost over $100m

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_fabrication_plant#:~:text=All%20these%20devices%20are%20extremely,each%20(e.g.%20EUV%20scanners).




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    #43
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793128#Comment_118793128

    Well if trades people are already in short supply then why are we not already training them in large numbers. Why are we waiting for Intel?

    Think about it.



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    #44
    donegal_man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,748 ✭✭✭donegal_man


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792642#Comment_118792642

    Utter nonsense. Not one person I've met in Berlin, Warsaw or Rome has thought we're either part of the UK (in which case we'd have left already) or on the verge of leaving. People do sometimes ask if I'm English when they hear my accent but that's as far as it goes.



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    #45
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793128#Comment_118793128

    How can builders and electricians be simultaneously in short supply and in desperate need of work?



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    #46
    tails_naf
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    You think Germany is going to have that defeatist attirude? We've thousands of skilled engineers (it's not all IT) here from all over the world. High quality jobs mens more taxpayers on the high end, which we do need.



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    #47
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793489#Comment_118793489

    It's not a defeatist attitude it's a realistic assessment of why we lost a bid.

    I'm sure if Germany lost the bid they would have a similar conversation about why.



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    #48
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,607 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I'm wondering why they pitched Oranmore in the first place.

    Dublin would be the obvious and only choice for a plant of such scale with the infrastructure required.

    Think this was ballsed tbh.

    My biggest concern about this is that Intel may start the wind down process in Ireland in the next few years with the new key sites on the continent.

    Planning in Ireland is a joke. Every Tom, Dick and Harry no matter where they are or for any reason can hold anything up for years through the courts.



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    #49
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793806#Comment_118793806

    The where probably didn't matter as long as transport links were good. Not much difference between the edge of Dublin and the Dublin side of Galway to Intel I'de say.

    The Germans probably offered them some better benefits or something. Logistically if I was building my mega factory I'de pick the centre of Europe over an Island too. They probably only said we were in contention to keep us happy.



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    #50
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792107#Comment_118792107

    What about da homeless….



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    #51
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,868 ✭✭✭Cordell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793489#Comment_118793489

    Every country on this earth will have trouble to provide the employees and the housing. So obviously they will need to bring them in from all over the world and accept the increased pressure on housing that they bring because this is how you develop a country. This is how it works, it's either plentiful and affordable housing or high standard of living. Not both.



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    #52
    IAmTheReign
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭IAmTheReign


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792145#Comment_118792145

    Do they? I've worked on the continent for most of the last 10 years and I can say from experience most people are fully aware that Ireland and the UK are different places and I've never once heard anyone talk about Ireland leaving the EU.



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    #53
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,607 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793894#Comment_118793894

    Just play along, it's easier 😉



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    #54
    getoutadodge
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭getoutadodge


    https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/intel-set-to-get-5-5-billion-in-german-subsidies-for-mega-plant


    Rules (EU MS state aid)...we make the rules...



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    #55
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792608#Comment_118792608

    so would i, from my dealings with people from other EU countries that just isn't happening.

    as well as that, we have managed to get over the land bridge issue now as it is being bypassed and the supply chain has been and is continuing to adapt.

    it sounds like an IREXIT supporter engaging in wishful thinking, TBH.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #56
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭plodder


    €5 billion in state aid is certainly going to have a major influence over where this project is located and presumably the eu chips act is what allows the German government to offer that aid. You wonder what they are getting in return for that. Foundry services aimed at the German car industry could be a big part of it given that the current semiconductor shortage has limited the production output of German car manufacturers.

    On the planning system/courts delay issue here, someone posted the following earlier:

    ""But Equinor has pulled out of the project, and out of Ireland. According to the Irish Examiner, Equinor has abandoned wind plans in Ireland due to “dissatisfaction with the regulatory and planning regime.” https://electrek.co/2021/11/05/equinor-pulls-out-of-ireland-and-a-2-3b-floating-offshore-wind-farm/"

    I wonder if that had more to do with the debacle described below, where even when you think you have all the consents in place, you actually don't.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/clare-island-fisherman-takes-action-to-stop-fibreoptic-cable-project-off-co-mayo-1.4252666

    He got the project stopped, even though the cable was already most of the way across the Atlantic. The on-shore facilities had permission, were constructed and afaik, a crew of specialists were in quarantine waiting for the go ahead to bring the cable ashore in Mayo. It was only a spur of the cable coming here (for Google and Facebook) but it's cancelled now.



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    #57
    FGR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭FGR


    The entire courts system needs reform. It was developed for a simpler time with a smaller population and far less bureaucracy and is one branch of the state that successive governments are unwilling to touch.

    Cost, as always, is probably the reason they won't bring in more judges, increase the length and frequency of sittings and introduce a maximum waiting period to allow for the hearing of matters, planning included.



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    #58
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    This is going to be a controversial one. I am all for private investment in the country and I think it's key to a successful economy. However, we have one of the most ridiculous housing situations in Europe. I currently live in Germany but have lived in England, the US and elsewhere. My girlfriend pays 570 for a nice apartment in Berlin while a friend of mine pays 2200 for a one bedroom apartment in Cork. I have never seen such low standards of renting as I have in Ireland with the extra insult that it's one of the most expensive countries to rent.

    Despite this we have a spate of landlords claiming that they're the victim in all of this. I work in the biotech field and I am involved in start ups and bigger biotech industries. Numerous conversations I've had with their employees have involved them saying they wouldn't want to pay so much of their wages on rent as is the case as in Ireland.

    We have to improve the housing situation first or this will mean even less people will invest in the state.



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    #59
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798380#Comment_118798380

    I'd tend towards agreement. I can't imagine a situation at the moment where the greater Galway city area could absorb a major project like a 10,000 person fab. Galway is creaking from an infrastructural and housing pov.

    If the IDA went to Intel and told them the new facility would be accompanied by a major public works project with affordable housing and transport infrastructure thrown into the bargain, they may have stood a chance - but the practical challenges were probably front-of-mind for Intel.

    This is the highest of high-end FDI projects for a firm like Intel with a lot on the line, not a widget factory in 1970s Shannon Free-Zone. They need to ensure everything is right before a spade is put in the ground or a dollar is spent.



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    #60
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    There's some kind of backwards thinking here. Are people suggesting that we should not take the jobs because we don't have enough people to fill them or homes for them to live in? No wonder the country is so indebted. Where do you think the tax receipts are going to come from to pay for society to function. If there is an intersection of this group and those who want the government to do more to battle rising fuel prices, well I give up, we are doomed.



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    #61
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798984#Comment_118798984

    We pitched for jobs outside a city that couldn't absorb them. This will not have been lost on Intel.

    This was like Sligo bidding for the Olympics without a bid-book or budget. This is the elite end of FDI attraction, with jobs out the wazoo and a critical global industry anchored in your country for a generation.

    They're still pussyfooting about with a ring-road in Galway and people already in good jobs are struggling to find somewhere to live.

    This is an example of Ireland paying the price for inertia.



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