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State lost 10,000 Intel jobs due to planning system delays



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,100 ✭✭✭✭ Ash.J.Williams

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,795 ✭✭✭ plodder

    I think the balance is skewed too much towards individual rights against the common good in this country. People are basically encouraged to take judicial reviews, with little risk to themselves from losing. Judicial review then takes so long that projects end up being cancelled regardless of whether they had merit or not. That's not a sign of a robust planning system (for big projects at least). Part of the problem was the big mistake in sending strategic projects straight to Bord Pleanala. Everyone has a right of appeal, and the courts were the only avenue for that. That mistake is being corrected, but we need to make it clear that judicial review after you've already lost one appeal, can't be risk free and can't be allowed to get projects cancelled just by delaying the decision.

  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭ mikep

    It's not just the planning either...EPA are taking years to issue licences. It's only a matter of time before a big investment is also lost because of this.

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,084 ✭✭✭✭ Boggles

    We don't have the infrastructure for data centres, it would be dangerously stupid borderline lunacy to allow any more be built.

    The government were warned about this in 2018, but went ahead and gave them special development status anyway.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,770 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    has our property problems also played a part in this?

  • Registered Users Posts: 284 ✭✭ getoutadodge

  • Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭ tails_naf

    That's a good question, but I'd say our property problems are in part to blame on planning also. The issue with property is there is a lack of supply. If we wanted we could supply a lot of houses on Oranmore where there are greenfield oppertunitites than you can in Dublin City centre, where the issue is different. Also the Intel jobs would not have required the govt to foot the bill for the houses, as those employees are generally paid well and can afford their own. It's not like the lads in facebook dublin are struggling for accommodation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭ Confused11811

    The Irish state on behalf of Intel has previously tried to illegally circumvent planning and development laws. Through the IDA the Irish government overstepped it's remit on CPO's. You can be sure every time a development by Intel is purposed it'll rightly be examined to the nth degree.

    I wouldn't be giving up our rights to object and bring legal recourse. People talk about giving priority to the benefit to society over the individual. Thats all fine and we'll until you are the individual and the "society" being talked about isn't your neighbors , your friends our community. Your community will actually be displaced by rising costs , the "society" spoken about is actually the general economy.

    I would however fully agree that the legal system for planning (and indeed several other things) is extremely slow. It probably needs reform to deal with such complex planning projects.

    But in my personal opinion we are very over reliant on such projects and other services such as local housing, schools and transportation links are often in a worse position when theses are completed.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,770 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    i suspect our housing issues played a significant role in this outcome, but im sure there were many reasons for it, our housing issues are now causing serious investment problems, the state needs to play a far bigger role in making sure building gets done....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭ mary 2021

    10,000 less enslavement's !

  • Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭ timetogo1

    Can Irish citizen rights not be upheld without waiting for years to progress through our legal system? In Apples case they bought the land in 2014 with a view to building the data centre by 2017. They're still wading through the Irish bureaucracy 8 years later.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,795 ✭✭✭ plodder

    These are the other factors I mentioned (except Brexit, or us being confused with the UK). But, the fact is that planning issues were cited, and the problems still exist. The Apple case is still being litigated afaik, as they eventually got permission and were looking to extend it, which is normally an uncontroversial thing in our planning system, but here they are still throwing sand in the gears. This kind of litigation doesn't happen in other European countries.

    Whether data centres make sense is a public policy question. It shouldn't be decided by individual objectors whose motivation could be something completely different. It made sense to allow a few to begin with. The policy could and should be reviewed then.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭ littlevillage

    Yep, bottom line is, this is a big loss..... IDA and Dept. of Enterprise have questions to answer. They are quick to toot their horn when they get a big win, I wonder will Shanahan and Varadakar explain how we dropped the ball here ?

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,722 ✭✭✭✭ Fr Tod Umptious

    I think this moreso than any issues with planning etc is the reason that Galway was not selected.

    It was only ever a outside option if everything else went wrong.

    Europe needs more chip manufacturing capacity and why not put that capacity in the middle of the continent where it has easy physical connectivity to the customers.

    Not in the far corner of the continent that has had it's access to the rest of the continent curtailed by Brexit because the land bridge is no longer as feasible an option as it used to be.

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