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How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,164 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I can dream 😂

    seriously though what kinda price are we talking about for one of these conversions?

    Are they ok with insurance companies?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Even up to 10k would be worth it if you had an otherwise solid and reliable car you're happy with.

    My A7 only has 136k km on the clock and is mechanically perfect and also has a bit of a rarity factor (don't see many of them around so when I actually encountered an identical car on the motorway recently, yer man pulled alongside with a big grin and thumbs up 😁)

    Replacing it with something equivalent in an EV would cost a lot more than 10k and there's probably a lot of years left in it yet.

    Of course we'd also have to deal with the notion in the insurance industry and NCT that a 10 year old car is a death trap and loaded accordingly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Cant see any vehicle being converted for just 5k. No way.

    Ya go in for a servicing and its just oil and filters and its a couple of hundred min.

    If it could be done cheaply. Might be a right idea but think people are delusional if ya think 5k will cover it.

    Definitely not a 300km range conversion anyways.



  • Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭macvin


    I've given the information a couple of times.

    Petrol is refined in many countries including Ireland and in several places in the UK.

    Demand for petrol is near forecast, so there's no real pressure on supplies.

    Refining cost of petrol is currently about 10c a litre. Higher than the 6-7c average.


    Diesel is a totally different fuel. It's a heavy oil and a huge amount is refined in Russia. Kallingrad is the largest diesel port and about 150 tankers a week depart from there.


    Demand for diesel type fuel (kerosene in particular) spiked dramatically last couple of weeks and 10 days ago there was a fear that Russian Fuel would be blocked.

    This led to refineries jacking up the price of refining to an all time high of $52 per barrel - normally it's $8-$10. In cent/pence that is a difference of 25c / 20p stg compared to petrol and "normal" pricing.

    No-one saw it coming. Very much a short term issue and led to a crazy spike in diesel prices all over Europe last week. As it's a refinery price issue it feeds into pumps within 3-4 days


    It settled down late Monday and fell further as the week went on. That's why some stations have had quite substantial price drops yesterday and today - effectively Mondays refinery price has already reached the forecourt.


    If you Google "European distillates barge crack" (no I don't know why it's called this 🤣) you can read the various industry news detailing the action.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,826 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Beautiful car but does service + parts not cost you a fortune?

    One of my friends has a BMW 7 series + I nearly fell off the chair when he told me price to replace the tyres.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I wouldn't listen to that clown on the subject of emissions given his populist stance on letting people digging up peat bogs, our biggest carbon store.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,164 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,649 ✭✭✭creedp


    There's no way youd get 400km from such a conversion. Even dedicated EVs with 60 / 70 kWh batteries struggle to get that range. Id say it would be impossible to stuff that much batteries into an ICE without filling the boot and then the car would exceed its rated gross weight and couldnt be certified. Id say youd be lucky to get 200 / 250 kms from this type of conversion and even then I'm not sure could it be achieved for €5k



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,164 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Ah well. In that case my diesel will be running for a good while longer or until we manage to pack in more KWH into a smaller space.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    It's not cheap but it's worth it 😊 To be fair, if you invest in them and look after them they'll do massive mileage. My last A6 had 410,000km on it when I sold it and the interior was still fresh and everything in it worked


    Tyres can be expensive but it depends on what you get. I normally pay about 220 for 2 middle of the road brand 18" tyres



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  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭Sam the Sham


    Reminds me of the old Yogi Berra (American baseball player) quote about a restaurant in New York: “Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.”



  • Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In 5 years time I will be 65. At the moment I have a great Dacia Duster 2017 and I was going to drive it to death. Up to now when I have changed cars I always got a 5 year old car (approx). I wont have anything but a state pension in 5 years. How are many older and poorer people going to be able to afford to change to EV if say by then they cost 25-35K?? ? I won't get a loan if I don't have an income or a job. There will be a huge amount of people in my position....................



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,261 ✭✭✭markpb


    EVs have been on sale in Ireland for about 8 years so the oldest will be 13 years old by the time you retire. What makes you think that second hand EVs will be 25k+ by then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭Timfy


    And what sort of capacity would a 13 year old battery have?

    No trees were harmed in the posting of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,773 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Verona Murphy TD says €3/l later this year on Radio1. Pat McDonagh who buys fuel, said we'll see double digit inflation and food shortages end 2022




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    ah great, just the thing to cheer me up on a sunday morning 😑




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There are EV's for sale on the 2nd hand market for less than 10k now so I don't know where your numbers are coming from. Maybe do a bit of digging into the market to put your mind to rest



  • Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭cal naughton


    Just checking carzone. 4 vehicles electric in the whole of Ireland under 9,999 .Two are vans and the other is a 2 person Renault twizy!!

    If coming out with statements like the above at least do your research!



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thing is the cars don't need to be as dear as they are (maybe now they do) and the car companies are able to charge a premium for EVs. The Dacia Spring is available for under €20k in Europe, about €12k in Germany with the incentives. Not a motorway cruiser certainly but if you're a pensioner who doesn't drive to France and need a runaround it'll give you a very handy 200km range (probably close to 300km if you're pottering around town).

    The trouble as I see it is the manufacturers are aimed at the higher-end market, there doesn't seem to be much targeting of the "good enough" market. It'll take time to convince people they don't drive as much as they think they do which is perhaps why the manufacturers are putting that bit of market on the long finger.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And more on Donedeal.ie and other sites

    Note, I never said there were millions for sale but there are ones out there for less than 10k.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,649 ✭✭✭creedp


    As currently structured will the EV grant significantly distort the 2nd hand market especially for lower priced cars? It will be difficult to justify buying a 2 / 3 year old EV for the same or even higher price that a new one. The grant should really be linked to the price of the car, like a negative VRT, rather than been paid to the buyer. At least then it also benefit the used car buyer and make buying used EVs more attractive to a wider market.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah it's another example of the government disrupting the market. They've done it with property (HAP and interest relief, just puts the price up for everyone) and are doing it with the hauliers now (subsidising 100 a week). The scrappage deals a decade ago were an absolute disgrace in economic and environmental terms as well.



  • Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    most people of 65 are not at the "pottering around" stage.....that made me laugh! Maybe 85 but not 65. I am currently 60 and spend most weekends hiking the mountains of Ireland, which is why I bought the Dacia Duster. Its the most budget car in its size I'd say and very low cost to drive (until now). But with kids and future grandkids in other parts of Ireland I'll be on the road a lot in the years to come.


    Most people who don't have a private pension (which I don't) see a huge drop in income in their mid sixties. That will be me in 5 years. My Dacia would have done me fine even then with a bit of luck. But I wonder how many of us will be able to make the switch then to EV if we only have a state pension and cannot get a loan? I hope there will be a low cost 2nd hand market but I'm not optimistic. Not to mention the thought of having to upgrade my home. Grant or not I won't have the money to pay the cost upfront.



  • Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd be very worried about buying a 13 year old EV to be honest? Is there any research into how an EV will age ? I have never bought a 13 year old car (max about 7 years) so I wouldn't be confident how efficient and cost effective a 13 year old EV would be!



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    From what I've read current batteries lose storage capacity over the years. As far as I recall after 9/10 years the battery pack would need to be replaced as they wouldn't have any range left. Maybe a 13 yo would have this done already. Some manufacturers offer a plan to replace after a timespan or if their efficiency falls below a certain level.



  • Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thanks............yes I guess we will know more as time goes on. There's bound to be a huge demand for 2nd hand EV's so this might have to part and parcel of the 2nd hand market (i.e. battery replacement with warranty) Time will tell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I've wondered if a state sponsered scheme to convert suitable older cars to E might be a runner. Kits could be developed for certain vehicles to enable thi sto be repeated quickly and easily. More jobs, kinder to the environment perhaps cheaper to buy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,159 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Not going to happen in any significant numbers to make it affordable or scalable for the masses. Like the rest of the western world we are a consumer driven society where we throw away perfectly good items in favour of newer items because we are told the newer item is improved and better than what you have now. Car manufacturers wouldn't benefit from you retrofitting existing cars on the road, they want you to keep buying newer and better ones from them. Same as phones, tvs, etc, new ones launched every 12 months promising alot of improvements over the old one just to keep getting people to buy them. Western economies are driven by consumerism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Comsumerism is likely to take a big hit with this war and the coming recession. There is no current cheap EV option for many as it stands. A system to retrofit vehicles would have many benefits for the country more jobs, a local industry that could be developed and expanded. The UK has a strong classic car industry. Probably agood idea to get rid of the current car tax system also. Much better that the 20c 'reduction' we jus saw that made no difference.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 51,159 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Are you still beating that old drum for abolishing motor tax and putting it on fuel instead? Not a hope of that going to happen, it would be political suicide for any government party who would entertain that idea. People are too sensitive to high fuel prices now as well as the increase in the cost of living and rising inflation. Any minister especially one who falls asleep in the Dail, would be signing their own political death warrant come election time.



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