Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Yeah, it's not just as straightforward as people saying "the young people have access to internet and don't like him". I'm sure plenty don't. Their culture appears to tend to look up to figures like Putin though. I'm sure that that could change over time. But it does filter down somewhat even to the young people who have traveled.

I don't think the fella I know would be in favour of the war. I just mean in terms of their understanding of how their world works. That's just their normal

To be fair, I think the Ukrainians are doing a fair job bloodying the nose of the Russian army soon far. The high estimate of Russian casualties 5 days in is around 4,000. If it's even only half of that, it's still a bad start for the Russians. Comparing to the Russo-Georgian war, lasting twice that long, and Russian casualties sit around 350.

Yes, the Russians could potentially roll up to Kiev and subject it to such a hellish bombardment that it leaves nothing of the city's inhabitants other than the fillings in their teeth, but that kind of brutal onslaught in the full glare of 21st century media will only bring more international condemnation, more sanctions and more commitments for military support to Ukraine. The tunnel vision the Russians are displaying in all of this is pretty staggering.

If that tape exists and the Russians have it, they should just nuke us all now rather than release it.

Rumour has it that Putin accidentally watched a few seconds from the start of the video last week and decided that humanity was an illusion that didn't deserve to exist anymore

As if this conflict hadn't already generated enough horrifying images!😲

I just feel I had to do something, however small or insignificant. I’ve felt ill all day today having viewed the news of that mother of the 6 year old girl. I’ve got kids that age myself.

Personally I can’t get the pain in her eyes out of my mind. It’s haunting me. Then I hear the story of that young soldier KIA moments after speaking to his mother and to any reasonable person he too is a victim. He’s a victim of that slurry ridden dung heap system they have ingeniously (evil scum) installed in Russia to mind control the masses.

Ive started the ball rolling now in my own way …… I’ve committed to sending 100 Google “reviews” to all major businesses in Russian cities. Started off with a star bucks in Moscow.

Some may say it’s futile but if there’s even the remotest possibility that the Russian people will wake up from their zombie sleep and begin an uprising to remove that piece of fcukin sh1t out of the Kremlin then I’ll sleep slightly better tonight

The propaganda levels from each side is off the charts.

I accept your Caveat -

Point 1 we agree on clearly so - il quote the points i disagree with

"It is absolutely inevitable that Russia will win this war. .........."

In answering this point i would say that, all things being equal, we WOULD agree here too? However things are not at all clear on this front. and so i have to disagree - It is clear (to me IMHO) that Putin did not expect any resistance what so ever- certainly nothing like the resistance that he is encountering. I would also add that, what is at stake here is NOT Russia, or Russian Military Prestige - what is at stake, is the career, life, and rule, of Vladimir Putin. If the Ukraine continue to fight and resist, if they bloody the Russian army up as much as they can (and i have ABSOLUTELY no doubt that they will do this - they have the means and the manpower in Kiev and other cities - to say nothing of the countryside) - Things could get very messy for Putin; Politically. Add to that the fact that the entire western world, the former eastern bloc, and most sane countries are crucifying Russia with sanctions. There is no question in my mind that Putins position may be at risk. Exits remain open to him (withdraw, come to a settlement, claim victory, etc etc) - But it is far from clear whether he would take these routes. The damage that could be done to the Russian military if they continue to fight, and perhaps attempt to occupy Ukraine would also be staggering. Yes the Russian military is enormous, but there would be no real way to cover up the death toll if it rose to the tens of thousands, or more. As it is sure too, if this continues

"No, I don't believe Ukraine is governed by Nazis etc.........."

On this point we completely disagree. The use of the term NAZI is pure unadulterated propaganda IMHO. Russia views WW2 (referred to in Russia as the Great Patriotic War) in a different way to the rest of the world. Firstly they abhor the NAZI forces for what they did to Russia (as well they should), and secondly they genuinely believe, that they, ALONE, defeated Hitler (not gonna debate this, irrelevant for the context of this). His use of the term NAZI, is purely to whip up pro Russian attitude and hysteria against the enemy, and also connect this war back to that entirely justifiable struggle. Its propaganda. It has absolutely no basis in reality, regardless of whether there are some right wingers in the Ukraine.

"Far right elements in Ukraine? By what barometer are you defining far right? I'd imagine, like most eastern european countries that gays and black people wouldn't be very welcome....."

I dont dispute that. I would however place it on the irrelevant shelf for now? Unless i am missing something, i dont believe that Russia has black ethnic minorities? Also Russia is one of the most anti LGBT countries in the world (possible exception of some of the Muslim majority states of course)

"Do I wish for an overall Russian victory? No. I personally would surrender though. If Ireland got invaded by the UK, I'd rather live under British rule than die and be put under British rule anyways........"

Well thats your position. I for one, have no idea how i would react. I would certainly defend my family 100% - i would defend them indefinitely, or die doing so

Im going to stop quoting because to be honest. You seem to have rational points for the most part. What i would say is that you are extremely pessimistic. And i admit, the situation is not good. But i do think you should re-evaluate the situation. This is no where near as hopeless as it seems. When they invaded on thursday, i was outraged, and almost as pessimistic as you.

But in 96hours we have seen

-The EU agree to militarily and financially Aid the Ukraine

-NATO effectively doing likewise

-Large quantities of effective weapons will be supplied

-Intelligence being handed to the Ukraine

-a complete ostracizing of Russia by the civilized world

-Severe Financial sanctions on Russia

-Several Top Oligarchs turning on the Regime (not to be underestimated at all)

-Big players such as China beginning to back away and chose to abstain from serious comment (which is a tacit condemnation in effect)

and most importantly

-Evidence that the vast majority of Ukrainians are going to fight like lions, and never capitulate (you even indicated this yourself)

This is a horrid situation. But its not over, not by a long shot.

“Nations that go down fighting rise again, but those who surrender tamely are finished.”

So Chin up - IMHO - respectfully

Happy to continue a back and forth if interested

Is this sanction map accurate? It looks like its only western countries that have placed sanctions on Russia. Is it the case that nobody in Africa or South America or Southern Asia have sanctioned Russia?