Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Ahh ok so the west is using Ukraine now to attack Russia? Gotcha

Somebody should tell the Ukrainians that its the west that is using them to attack Russia and that Russia isn't really the aggressors at all.

The mindless propaganda is becoming increasingly Goebbels like, not that I’d expect posters here to even notice.

I thought it was very impressive that a few months back we had so many medical experts on here but now I see we also have hundreds of military experts also! In fact some of the posters are experts in both areas!

Can you point out where I said that in any of my posts? You seem to have a bad habit of deliberately misinterpreting people's posts.

The west will not put boots on the ground to support Ukraine, but they will support them by proxy by arming and funding them. They wont defend Ukraine themselves, but will use Ukraine as a proxy. This bs about west using ukraine to attack Russia and Russia not being the aggressors is your own.

Ukraine has been very slow to move forward since independence. Corruption is rife. The east of the country which is pro russia is holding the west of country back. Perhaps it is best to split the country. Let west move forward into the EU and east back to Moscow. Admittance that the Ukraine jurisdiction boundary is not in the right place.

Russia maybe be able to take the east back but holding the west of Ukraine against their will would be impossible. Country has 43 million people. There would be fighting for decades should russia try and take all of Ukraine.

and also many who are not expert in either

They are not funding neo Nazis .

They are supplying and training the Ukrainian military who are defending their own country .

Putin fires shells, the world fires words .

Someone needs to step up and defend Ukraine.

Not sure about oil, but Poland, Baltics, Hungary are all vastly more reliant on Russian gas. I think some of those are 100% reliant on Russian gas - surely the scope of sanctions will be limited by this

But west ukrainians don't agree with his ideology which will make it extremely difficult for russia to hold considering its size. He has already recognised two break away regions of east Ukraine so I would be reading that he might be happy splitting the ukraine into east and west. He knows it would be impossible to hold the west of Ukraine.

This is a quote from your post that im talking about:

"NATO had very advanced plans to set up in Ukraine. Crimea was earmarked for a major NATO installation."

That is not you expressing an opinion, it is very much trying to post it as a fact.

(I can quote the entire post if you like?)

I don't think Putin cares what west Ukrainians agree with at this point. If Putin needs to do as the USA does and install a friendly government backed by continual firepower, he will do that if he does not get the concessions he's asking for.

Putin seems to think Ukraine are being used by the west.

He is a smart guy, and would have access to greater information than any of us here.

Such is the nature of confrontations between these two juggernauts over the years, most of what goes on is usually covert and well hidden from our eyes and ears.

Considering illegal invasions, aggression and (ongoing) occupations are not uncommon, I think this Russia-Ukraine situation is being aggravated and escalated for the geo-political interests of the different sides here. Turkey invaded and continues to prop up its puppet state in Cyprus, and more recently invaded and continues to occupy Syria. Israel acts like a rogue state systematically and extremely frequently. UAE has seized and is now occupying Yemen's largest island and is fortifying it, along with an airbase being built on another island by an unknown state. Sri Lanka invaded relatively recently Tamil Eelam and commit large scale human rights abuses. Barely made headlines. Continued occupation of Kashmir by India and accompanied human rights abuses. These are just from the top of my head.

None of these are being played up to the extent of what is happening here between Russia and Ukraine. Russia seized Crimea and now the DPR. I mean its really nothing new or unusual that a state would act like this given the aggravating circumstances. The outrage constantly pumped out in western media and from western states in particular the USA and UK are both expected and disproportionate to their reaction to all the other illegal occupations and wars going on around the world, some of which they directly fuel.

The wests reaction are not proportionate to their position on other acts of illegal aggression and are designed to be escalatory and are entirely serving of their geo-political interests and nothing more - even if they are technically correct by international law.