Rural hubs for remote workers... €60 per week to use!

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 5:24pm #1

I'm a rural dweller and I think I'll be a long-term remote worker, so I had been looking forward to the introduction of these rural hubs. Health wise I think it would be great to get out of the house a little more and socialize, and I think if done right this kind of scheme could really breath life back into small villages.

I was so disappointed then to see what this scheme, which if I recall correctly, was one of the central pillars of the program for Government, looks like after we got a first peek yesterday.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/hundreds-of-remote-working-hubs-announced-by-government-1261759.html

Aside from the website not really working, the real disappointment was the price quoted by my local hub for a desk.... €12.50 per day. Who can afford that? I can't realistically see anybody much using this service at these prices, so why are we pumping so much money into it?

If you look through the article they talk about the transformative effect this is going to have, allowing for tens of thousands of workers to work from the countryside. Not a hope! As dark and dank as my spare room/office year there's no way I could afford €60 a week for a decent office, effectively I'd be paying to work!

I don't have much faith in this government but I naively believed they would get this somewhat right. It would have been such an easy win for them. How difficult could it be to provide basic offices at a minimal cost, given the state's resources and the related costs they already have towards climate, transport, rural development, dublin congestion and competitiveness, mental health and so on.

For me this just feeds into the narrative that this lot are utterly incompetent, Dublin centric and elitist. I mean €12.50 a day is nothing if you're on a CEO's or TD's salary.

whippet · 22-02-2022 5:28pm

I'd have a totally different view to yourself - I've used these hubs in the past quite a bit and €60 per week is an absolute bargain. Especially considering what the commute to my head office was - €50 in diesel a week alone.

If you have a home office you might only want the desk for a day or two a week. I used it when I was having work done in my house and when broadband was a problem.

But I know you can't appease everyone, and regardless of what the government do or don't do you will have people saying it is too much or too little.

Mrs OBumble · 22-02-2022 5:29pm

That's cheap.

Market rate is more like €100 per week where I live.

How much will you save in travel costs?

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674026#Comment_118674026

I'll be saving nothing on travel costs. I'll be staying in my dank little spare room.

I can see though that if you had a very long commute and no home space this might be attractive. But do we need to provide tens of thousands of these spaces for what must be quite a small number then of potential users.

SouthWesterly · 22-02-2022 5:34pm

36.90 a day for me.open 9 to 5.30 so not much good.

22-02-2022 5:36pm

Edit: Never mind. I had a look at the connecting site for it. Wasn't impressed. In my midlands area, there's only a meeting room costing 65 euro per hour...

That's just wonderful for something gaining so much State support. And yes, they're operated by businesses, so it's not really a service provided by the govt. More of a initiative to link existing centres.

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674023#Comment_118674023

I can't see that there'd be tens of thousands of people having work done at home at the same time.

A good few of these facilities already in place, I don't think we need more unless there's mass appeal. I think the one near me is empty most of the time.

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674056#Comment_118674056

What's an internet cafe? Haven't seen one of those in years!

I know there will be a cost to running these, especially if they have to be staffed. But do we need to build them then if they won't be used? Are they just a rural internet cafe? What's the point in that?

road_high · 22-02-2022 5:42pm

I think these kind of defeat the purpose of wfh- no company that is sanctioning wfh will be bothered whether you do it from a hone office or these hubs- but will be far more reticent to stump up a weekly fee plus pay for a central office that you aren’t in already.

Unless you have no at home office facilities then these serve little purpose in my opinion. They are almost obsolete with the likes of Microsoft teams etc now

whippet · 22-02-2022 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674066#Comment_118674066

the one near me is really busy, it has a mix of hot desks and small full time offices. Great kitchen, coffee facilities, meeting rooms and small pods for making calls etc. Open 24/7 as well.

Another great use for it was booking meeting rooms - a few times I'd have customers or colleagues meet me there rather than having to go to the head office in Dublin.

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674101#Comment_118674101

Did you pay for it from your own pocket, or your employer?

Where people do use the one near me I think they're mostly funded training courses.

Clareman · 22-02-2022 5:46pm

That's brilliant, there's 1 near me that's €10 a day or €40 a week, I'll definitely be going there some days during the holidays when the children are off.

22-02-2022 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674086#Comment_118674086

Have a look at the main site: https://connectedhubs.ie/

Honestly, the original article is kinda misleading.

whippet · 22-02-2022 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674112#Comment_118674112

A bit of both. When I am meeting clients I'd expense the cost of the meeting room. I had a month of building work going on in my house a couple of years back and spent the month working there as the noise would have been mental in the house and the other option was to go to the head office.

These do not replace offices or home offices - they are another option for smart / remote working. Days on end in a pokey spare room office isn't good for anyone and even a day or two of mixing with others in a hub is very enjoyable.

My wife has no interest in going in to the hub - she has been WFH for over a decade and has a purpose built office in the house so is happy out there.

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674115#Comment_118674115

It's great for you personally. I just don't think then it warrants being such a cost and priority if this is the use case.

22-02-2022 5:54pm

This falls into the "pack of smokes" index for me. If something is cheaper than a pack of smokes, then it's a fairly trivial daily amount for a lot of people in Ireland.

whippet · 22-02-2022 5:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674142#Comment_118674142

that isn't the only use case. These hubs will develop in to small communities of small / micro businesses and remote workers. Sharing ideas, splitting infrastructure costs and more importantly keeping people living and working in regional towns.

L1011 · 22-02-2022 6:03pm

If there's even vague demand in an area, 12.50 a day is not going to stop it being booked solid. Fraction of the commuting cost for most people.

Plenty of employers will pay that, or even twice that (125/week was the limit in a job I worked in before, pre COVID too) for the saving on paying for an actual desk space in a city.

thomasj · 22-02-2022 6:27pm

Looks promising what you're getting for your money 😀

Photo taken from an article on that booking site about the minister launch yesterday

Clareman · 22-02-2022 6:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674142#Comment_118674142

Considering I wouldn't have to heat the house or use as much power (laptop, chargers, coffee machine) I'd imagine the €10 isn't that much really.

It's not something I'll probably use that often but it's a brilliant service to have available, the 1 here is ran by the Council.

Brussels Sprout · 22-02-2022 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234274/rural-hubs-for-remote-workers-60-per-week-to-use

What do you think would be a fair price for this service?

whippet · 22-02-2022 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674348#Comment_118674348

that is the Mill in Drogheda - and those pods are really good - single person, two person and 4 person pods.

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 7:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674503#Comment_118674503

It's not a private service so I don't think that really applies, and before you accuse me of looking for a freebie, bear in mind my tax dollars are funding it anyway. For me personally though I wouldn't pay more than a euro or two above the cost of ESB and heating the spare room for the work hours*. I'll be paying for broadband anyway.

Maybe I've grossly misjudged how much disposable income people have, but I just can't see the uptake unless it's a nominal fee.

And if it doesn't have considerable uptake I don't see the point of it, not at this cost and priority. Sure it's a nice to have for people already remote working, and I can see that and I might even use it myself the odd time, if say we had visitors using the spare room or what not.

As a public expenditure though I can't see the benefit unless it has a transformative effect and that's what this has been sold as (see article). I don't see that it would really help convince somebody to stop commuting. I don't that think it would really make somebody think about opening a shop, garage or creche in a small town or village unless it draws a mass of people in. If there's people working remotely already, it's not going to bring them to a shared space to save on the c02 of otherwise heating individual homes.

So another waste really especially given that some those derelict buildings might have gone towards housing.

*I see Clareman has already given a figure of €10 for this. I'd put it at €2 or so. He really needs to look at his energy usage, Eamon Ryan might want a word.

Clareman · 22-02-2022 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674738#Comment_118674738

The problem with having it too low is that people will just book it and not use it, the pack of cigarettes analogy is a very good 1, these places aren't going to be money makers but they supply a service that the private sector normally does, have a look at cafe's, hotel reception areas to see people working away, for those as old as me you might even remember Internet Cafe's. At €40 for the week that's just about €1 per working hour, considering you have a heated, safe, secure, powered location with internet for that price it's great value for in my opinion.

Yes a lot of people can just hang out in a spare room, but I would counterargue that a lot of people don't have that luxury, it might have been acceptable during lock down for people to make do working from their room or share a kitchen table but as we move out of lockdowns employers mightn't want employees to be working under those conditions or mightn't even want them in the office 5 days a week, at a tenner a day for me the hub is cheaper than commuting.

22-02-2022 9:15pm

This could be game changing, especially if you were working with a company willing to pay a portion or all of the costs.

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 9:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675141#Comment_118675141

People could just be blocked from using it if they misuse it, doesn't justify making it unaffordable for the majority.

Comparing it to hotel lobbies doesn't stand up either, they're not going to scale up if a lot of people start working from home. And I haven't heard anyone from a rural businesses saying please don't take away our trade in people having a cup of coffee and hanging around for a days free WiFi

I can't take seriously your argument on cost, considering I calculate you spend about 10k per year on energy bills.

I will allow that not everyone has a spare room, but I don't think this is attractive enough to keep you out of the office in that case. And it doesn't support this being transformative enough to bring tens of thousands of people to these hubs.

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675205#Comment_118675205

I'd be delighted if my company were willing to meet some or all of the costs. I can't see it happening considering how reluctant they've been to cough up substantially for office equipment/heating.

And it's quite a risk if that's the success factor on something as costly and high priority as this has been.

HBC08 · 22-02-2022 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234274/rural-hubs-for-remote-workers-60-per-week-to-use

Ah seriously? You get fcuk all for €12.50 and most people would save that on petrol.....also how much is your time worth that you're saving?

People will moan about anything, what do you think is a fair price?

Doasisaynotwhatido · 22-02-2022 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675367#Comment_118675367

Free considering we the tax payers are paying for these hubs already.

Clareman · 22-02-2022 9:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675328#Comment_118675328

If people don't want to pay it, they they don't pay it. I work from home full time and will do for the foreseeable future, on a couple of occasions I've had to call to family to take a call, people have used my place as well, stuff happens, having a facility like this is a great asset. In Clare for example people might want to come on holidays here, broadband or office facilities mightn't be in place where people are going, now there's an option. This is a service for those that need it, bit like libraries, not for everyone but it's a service for all.

Sleeper12 · 22-02-2022 9:54pm

I honestly think €12.50 very reasonable. This includes light, heat, broadband etc. A bargain imo

22-02-2022 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675346#Comment_118675346

Ok, that's more of an issue then. My company have been the opposite, very supportive in general, including financially.

listermint · 22-02-2022 9:55pm

Did the OP just say 2 euro per day would be fair price.

Ffs........

22-02-2022 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675346#Comment_118675346

Pretty sure anyone in software would happily pay this and more for such a service. The cost of living in Dublin or even commuting versus 60 a week or more. I probably won't be using it but plenty of reasonable employers would probably be fine with covering at least a portion of it tbh.

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675377#Comment_118675377

Like a library. And this is broadly the type of service libraries are moving towards anyway. There's even already some rural libraries, with a certain amount of funded workforce and facilities in place.

This would have been so easy to get right and make a real difference.

HBC08 · 22-02-2022 9:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675377#Comment_118675377

We the tax payers have shelled out for the initial cost.A sizeable chunk of said tax payers like me will never use the hubs so would prefer to not subsidise them forever for everybody who might use them.People using them might be asked to pay a reasonable small amount for that service.That seems fair enough to me.

I think they're a great idea and will be very popular as I said I won't have reason to use them in my current job but nice to know to option is there.

road_high · 22-02-2022 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675205#Comment_118675205

But that’s pretty unlikely. Part of the big carrot for companies accommodating WFH in the first place is the massive cost savings for them vs the cost of offices. They’re not likely to want more overheads and I couldn’t see the company I work for paying for it

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675410#Comment_118675410

I'm in software thanks, but I'm saving for a house and have dependents.

Also the cost of commuting doesn't disappear, but I think would reduce considerably.

Doasisaynotwhatido · 22-02-2022 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675416#Comment_118675416

100%.

How is someone working in a call centre on 25,000k going to be able to afford about 2500k a year

Doasisaynotwhatido · 22-02-2022 10:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675425#Comment_118675425

I pay taxes for rail services but there's no railway station within 100km of me. Thats tax for you

22-02-2022 10:04pm

Utterly soulless.

HBC08 · 22-02-2022 10:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675433#Comment_118675433

Jesus christ,I really think I'm going to leave boards for a while.

To use your own train analogy,you are suggesting that after the initial infrastructure of setting up the railways then all tickets are free.

Doasisaynotwhatido · 22-02-2022 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675466#Comment_118675466

Apart from the Luas no it wouldn't he free

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675466#Comment_118675466

I'm ok with mental health services being free and I hope to never use them. A public service doesn't mean all the public has to use it all the time.

If this reduces our carbon use and reinvigorates rural communities (we already put a lot of public funds towards rural/community development and services) I'm all for it.

Clareman · 22-02-2022 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675523#Comment_118675523

You do realize that these aren't just rural but all over Ireland don't you? There's a load of them in Dublin for example

MegamanBoo · 22-02-2022 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675583#Comment_118675583

Great, but I don't think the public benefits are quite as strong in Dublin.

From the original article.. "According to Ms Humphreys, the hubs are aimed at improving quality of life in less urban areas."

This really has been pushed as a major government target, I think primarily to reduce carbon footprint, combat rural disadvantage and isolation, and take pressure off Dublin.

What's presented now might be useful to some people in some scenarios, but I think that unless it's attractive enough to entice enough people and public opinion to remote working, it's just a waste of public money and government effort.

A huge wasted opportunity and terrible indictment of this governments competence imho.

22-02-2022 11:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674165#Comment_118674165

"pack of smokes"? Please use a metric which the majority of the population can relate to. Most people have either never smoked or smoked a long time ago.

Feisar · 22-02-2022 11:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674165#Comment_118674165

Pack of cigs - €15x5x48=€2,880. Plus that's off yer net income so that's more like €4K of yer gross spent on hubs.

Mrs OBumble · 22-02-2022 11:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675141#Comment_118675141

So they may put existing space-providers out of business. A great use of government funding!

elperello · 22-02-2022 11:42pm

Presumably the charge would be tax deductible perhaps making the cost more attractive.

Bass Reeves · 23-02-2022 12:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675762#Comment_118675762

Call it what every you like. The price of a dinner, three pints, a fifty a week.

At the end of the days it's a price point. Set it at 2-3 euro a day and you will have people that have other choices using it. They probably do not want people using it full-time unless they really need to.

If you have a mobile home in Kerry or Clare, it gives an option to lengthen the holidays by a few days either end. Would you pay a hundred euro to stay down there an extra 7-10days.

A lot of companies will pick up a limited amount of the cost. If you employ 50 people in an office in Dublin and at present have to have desks for them all. In 10 years could have 8-10 hot desks, 4-6 permanent ones and a meeting room. It will probably be 1/3 of its present footprint. You could be paying 2-300/sq M for office space. Add in saving in electricity, heating and other costs there is significant business costs saving for businesses.

Paying for 1-2 days a week for most employees or full-time for one or two still leaves significant savings

Rural hubs for remote workers... €60 per week to use!

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