Why is the Irish Labour party such a failure ?

Whereas the likes of Mary Lou, Paul Murphy and RBB dragged themselves up from being barefoot on the streets................

You're right of course but it's the cultural/intellectual style of a certain kind of South Dublin liberal which sticks in people's craw, not whether they went to Trinity or come from wealth.

Desmond Fennell wrote about this in 'Nice People and Rednecks' and his other books.

Ture that they weren't born poor, but so what? Why is not being born poor held against the people who advocate for people less fortunate than themselves?

Should only people born poor advovare for the poor? The UK has a situation where they have a party of people generally born very wealthy who advocate for people like themselves and I don't think that's a more desirable situation.

It was a response to someone going on about "Smoke salmon socialists".

I actually had to google who the current Labour leader is to check and is Alan Kelly whose father was a small farmer from Tipperary who quit dairying to work on the roads for the local county Council. He attended Nenagh CBS.

MLM, on the other hand grew up as the daughter of a surveyor and builder. She attended a private secondary school.

RBB was brought up by an accountant and attended the well known D4 Rugby school St. Michaels

Paul Murphy's father was a senior manager in Mars Ireland and PM attended the fee paying St. Killian's and later the Institute up on Leeson Street.

Which of the above four do you think would have been least likely to have been brought up on smoked-salmon?

Kelly, if we're going by the heuristic that farmers, rural people and road workers are less likely eat smoked salmon.

I never understand the objection to smoked salmon socialist. Someone who is wealthy is entitled to spend money on nice things. Somehow that's turned into an insult when they advocate for better services for people with less than themselves.

It's seen as hypocrisy or a contradiction, but it doesn't bare a moment's scrutiny. They have money, but advocate for people with less than themselves. Why would that be a contradiction? Isn't thst precisely the kind of thing politicians are supposed to do? Arent they specifically not supposed to only look after people like themselves or the wealthiest in society?

It's an accusation that's only made against people who advocate for those with less than themselves.

Michael D. Higgins is intellectual, popular, unassuming and from Clare/Galway as an example of someone who is an intellectual but not of the 'type' I'm describing.

Like I said it's a certain kind of affected South Dublin cultural/intellectual style that many people don't like. 'The D4 set' etc.

Some of it is reverse snobbery, some of it a natural reaction to a kind of charmless intellectual vanity coupled with class assumptions. Sometimes it takes a Dub v countryside form.

It may be unfair but the perception is there.

???

OK. So if the people who want to advocate for the poor all stay in social care, then who will help the poor?

My mrs works in that kind of area. She trained to lead a service so she can actually help people by setting standards, training, adapting the services so they can meet evolving needs, learning from analogous services in other areas or countries. Is she helping people or is she someone who sees the "lower classes" from across the river as their own little pathway to management? Is that the connotation for everyone who goes into management or administration of social services?

What about of my mrs goes higher in the service and manages a regional or national service? Is she then helping more people or just using more idiots? What about going into politics to actually help shape policy to help even more people? Somehow that has even worse connotations, in your view. Better staying as a minimum wage care assistant - the only place to do this work without any connotations and with absolutely no influence over policy or how it's managed

When they started shilling for Fine Gael and pushing for the privatisation of our water infrastructure, that was probably the end of them as far as a lot of their supporters were concerned. It's astonishing that there are people like Alan Kelly now at the head of the table and moan Joan had never really had much support from Labour's traditional base. Plus there's a raft of nothing people floating around like Aodhán O'Riordáin.

They're adrift now in a sea of uncertainty because of the ill-thought out decisions a few years ago and fully deserve to be where they are.

Water services shouldn't be privatised. But there definitely should be water charges based off usage.

Hard to disagree. But I think the seeds were sown how Labour was always the 'little brother at best' in Irish politics went back further still.

When Labour stood aside in 1918 for a Sinn Fein v The Irish Parliamentary Party showdown.

Then to make matters worse Labour did not contest the 1921 elections.

When Labour reached their strongest point they went more central and got rid of the leftist factions in the 1990's. Ever since then I think Labour has had no identity. And has been usurped not only by SF but by PUP and leftist independents.

Basically now no ordinary person on the street can definitively say what Labour stands for. I predict the Social Democrats will end up over taking Labour as well and that will be the final insult.

A charismatic leader of the Labour party is one hope. But Alan Kelly is so bland and non descript it sums up Labour's problems!

Problem with Labour is they shifted too right towards the centre.. to the point that not a lot distinguishes them fro FF/FG… because of that vacuum they have caused we have the resurgence of Sinn Fein.

there has been and is a dearth of talent in labour….from the top down… Gilmore, Burton and Howlin as leaders.. no, sorry. As much charisma and relatability and help to real working people as a paper statue in a hurricane …. Alan Kelly seems to do nothing but sow division and again no charisma, talks to please, every interview or speech is a call for votes as opposed to seducing people by outlining a fair set of proposals that can be the pillars of re establishing this country as a fair, rewarding and prosperous country for its citizens but no…. Citizens and our wellbeing are not his priority … he is pushing for and end to mask wearing.

It might have won them the election but it would have decimated their youth vote. Corbyn sat on the fence because Labour members/voters were remain-leaning but most Labour constituencies voted leave.