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U.S. imperialism chitchat corner.

  • 19-02-2022 10:28pm
    #1
    Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    Let's talk about U.S. imperialism.

    I think it is bad but there are debatedly worse actors on the world stage than the U.S.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    A good documentary on this by vice news titled "the shadow war between Iran and the USA for control of the middle East"

    The chief nuclear scientist in Iran was assassinated in 2020 with a remote-controlled machine gun mounted on a Nissan, IRGC Deputy Commander-In-Chief Ali Fadavi said that the weapon was equipped with a camera and utilized artificial intelligence and facial recognition to target Fakhrizadeh.

    Of course though the USA had no part in any of this either by doing it themselves or getting Israel to do it, that's the stuff of conspiracy theories, according to the United States the operation was carried out by a few jihadi cavemen on the outskirts of Iran.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xrfDDrPOtlo&vl=en

    Post edited by Harryd225 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    There also many proxy wars between Iran and the USA going on in the middle East, Yemen being the most notable. Although it's led by Saudi Arabia they are US backed and supported. Armed with US-made bombs and British-made fighter jets, Saudi Arabia and its allies have been waging a ruinous war on Yemen for the last seven years. The US have tried to distance themselves from the war in the last couple of years due to how catastrophic the war is.

    According to rights groups, the coalition has not accidentally attacked civilian infrastructure – it has been doing it deliberately.

    10,160,000 Yemenis were deprived of water, food, and electricity as a result of the conflict, while Oxfam said that more than 10 million Yemenis did not have enough food to eat, in addition to 850,000 half-starved children. Over 13 million civilians were without access to clean water, hundreds of thousands killed mostly due to starvation and other conflict related deaths.

    The USA don't seem too interested in humanitarian situations unless it benefits them, they charge in to places like Libya, one of the most well off countries in all of Africa on the basis of humanitarian reasons and leave the place one of the most war torn horrible countries in the world.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    Devil's advocate: If you can fight your own corner it is better to enjoy U.S. hegemony than the other superpowers/regional big swinging dicks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,184 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Come on, forget that nasty business of starving children in Yemen.

    The BBC says that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman is a great guy because he now allows women to drive!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Better for who exactly? Not for the Yemenis, definitely not for the Libyans. Humanitarian reasons seem to be the main propaganda tool for the USA and UK to start wars and force regime change.

    Libya for example was one of the countries in Africa in the least need of Humanitarian support, it was one of the most well off countries in Africa with one of the highest standards of living. This didn't stop the USA from embarking on their great humanitarian mission, bombing the place to shreds and backing a minority of Islamist extremists leaving Libya one of the worst countries in the whole world, once Gaddafi was gone they seemed to care very little about providing humanitarian support to Libya anymore.

    As secretary of state Hillary Clinton said "We came, We saw, He died!!!!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Amazing. Currently the Russian federation is terrorising a European country but, yeah let's talk about the US 🙄



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    If you were reading that thread you would understand why i created this one: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118660833/#Comment_118660833



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    In your OP you say there are "debatedly" worse actors...you mean these lads?


    I'm failing to see what the "debate" is.

    You think those two are in to individual liberty and democracy is it? That they run countries and not regimes? That they are not autocratic regimes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,184 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    How is that?

    Surely Ukraine can defend itself with all that weaponry that has kindly been donated by their ...... friends.



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  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    So conflicted about China. Horrible government that is definitely lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty. Russia...horrible government stealing everything that is not nailed down and will walk over anyone to get what they want.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    I have to say that Biden is being very magnanimous considering Ukraine leader said he would look in to Trump's allegations about Biden's son but I think he understands that Ukraine desperately needed those billions of arms. Putin must have been expecting the buffoon to get a second term and only steps up pressure now as needs must.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Yeah, a few thousand dead in the last eight years in Ukraine so let's forget about all the horrors being inflicted on the people of the Middle East by US airstrikes and interference and US backed regimes and countries all the time🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Ukraine has already been dismembered twice by Russia in the last 8 years. They need help to stand up to Russian aggression. Now they face imminent invasion.

    Give them all the weaponry they need.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Half the shift is in here 🤣🤣🤣



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    Engage with them and they might call for re-enforcements and as you know they can not fight a battle on multiple fronts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    You enjoy a western lifestyle along with the rest of us. Don't be a hypocrite and pretend you don't know where that comes from or how it is possible.

    Someone has to do the work to keep that lifestyle for the west. It's not us of course. It's the US as usual.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    I drive an EV not for environmental reasons but more so because I was sick of my culpability in the powerplays of the major powers squabbling over oil and gas.

    The percentage of hydrocarbons in my electricity is low but not zero.

    I also hope that once the transition is done to EVs then there will be less to fight over with sodium or iron being main component in batteries and no precious metals used in motors.

    We will see. Maybe then the battle will move to Facebook vs VK vs Tiktok fighting wars by proxy through their captured imperialist Government of choice.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Rubbish. That's just pumping the propaganda that's been coming out of western governments for decades. If we want to be brutally honest about where our lifestyles come from, let's all praise colonialism, and European imperialism. That laid the foundations for European success, and helped Europe come back to success after WW2.

    The US did what it could to dismantle European Imperial powers after WW2, and weren't terribly interested in funding European rebuilding efforts except where it directly related to their anti-communist/Soviet agenda. US interests always have come first, whether that's related to trade or diplomacy. In modern times, we should be grateful to the EU, and the trade/economic agreements that have allowed us to resist domination by US groups.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    Russia sees E.U. as a superpower(without an army yet) so shouldn't we?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    France, Germany and the UK don't sneeze unless the US says so. That's because the US looks after it's interests. Luckily for us those interests align with ours and that by proxy allows for the lifestyle you enjoy.

    That is simply a fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Oh good god almighty 🙄 The USA invading Iraq and destroying Libya, interfering in countless countries and backing Saudi Arabia in Yemen to create the worst humanitarian situation in the whole world was all for our benefit was it? And the funniest part of it all, you say we are supposed to be thankful for all of this!!!!

    Some people really are deluded.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Abel Defeated Vent


    The Yanks are objectively the worst actors on the stage.

    At least with Russia and China you know where you stand - dictatorial menaces that aren't fond of personal freedom and that strongarm their neighbours.

    The Yanks, on the other hand, masquerade as a benevolent world leader. There's only one country that has dropped two atomic bombs. The same country used Agent Orange in Vietnam. They also lied themselves into killing a million Iraqis and displacing millions more. And that's before we get into them overthrowing numerous democratically elected leaders;

    • Mosaddegh in Iran which turned Iran from a relatively free country into a theocracy.
    • Allende in Chile and installed that charming fellow Pinochet in his place.
    • Arbenz in Guatemala when he tried to put a leash on United Fruit Co.
    • Goulart in Brazil, after which the people of Brazil enjoyed two decades of military dictatorship.

    I haven't even gotten to Afghanistan and them supporting 3/4 of the world's dictators.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, it's simply an opinion.

    German, French, and British interests have run counter to US interests plenty of times in the past. Remember Freedom Fries? All parties involved have supported US interests at different times in history, but they've also blocked US efforts too. That's international diplomacy.

    If European nations were under the thumb as much as you think, the EU would never have formed... as it weakens the influence that the US has over less powerful nations, and provides competition on the world stage.

    Oh.. and all of that, that I provided? That's opinion too. Not fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The EU is a complete irrelevance.

    Germany and to a lesser extent France decide what way the rest of the EU countries go and they invariably end up doing as the US wants.

    The EU just lost it's largest military and second largest financial member (the UK).

    It can't last as currently constituted long term in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The last time French and British policy ran counter to the US in any remotely serious way was Suez.

    Remind me how that worked out for them and how it worked out for the United States.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    The UK and are just as responsible for what has been going on as the USA are, although the UK are far weaker they are more like an extension of the USA when it comes to these matters.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Haha... Depends on which source you use... but France is Europe's strongest military... easily comparable with the UK.

    And, I'd say the EU will last just fine. It just needs to get past its need to virtue signal, pay more attention to European matters, and stop trying to invite everyone to join. Thankfully, things are changing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭HerrKapitan


    I think US (+UK,France, Ger), China and Russia are all in bed together and are playing out theatre. All in order to control the masses.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Please explain to the rest of us here what exactly they are doing that we should be grateful for? How has the Iraq invasion or the destruction of Libya or how has the worst humanitarian situation in the world in Yemen benefitted me or you?

    Please explain I'm genuinely interested to know.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oh, I know what happened with Suez.. but I pointed out freedom fries, so I guess you don't remember the French being bitched on by the US over their criticism relating to Iraq? There have been plenty of other times that those countries or the EU as a group have resisted US efforts to exercise control.

    But grand.. I get the impression that you're not really interested in discussing this, and just want to deflect each time you meet resistance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    "Freedom fries" is a public distortion of reality. At the state level France never challenged the US over Iraq. A few public statements but in private they were never going to seriously challenge that invasion.

    Not like Suez where both France and the UK thought they still had empire weight to throw around despite the United States warning them publicly like never before that if they did this it will be for the last time. And it was.

    They were finished as meaningful powers from that moment and ever since have more or less towed the line.

    In fairness to France, at least publicly, they are more contrarian then the UK but not by much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    That's the thing though Russia, China the middle East and Africa are all well aware of what the US are up to.

    People say Russia, China, Iran and everyone else not part of the west are all just brainwashed and can't see how bad their government, intelligence services and their countries in general are. The thing is though those countries think the exact same thing about us. It's very hard to decipher what's really going on in the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    So are you going to explain your remarkable claims then? Please explain to the rest of us here what exactly the US are doing in the middle East and Africa that we should be grateful for? How has the Iraq invasion or the destruction of Libya or how has the worst humanitarian situation in the world in Yemen benefitted me and the people of Ireland? It simply sounds to me you are just completely deluded and brainwashed from American propaganda unless you can explain otherwise.

    Please explain I'm genuinely interested to know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The Yemen situation is a policy of Saudi Arabia.

    You seem to overlook how and on what conditions the United States secured the oil from Saudi Arabia when Roosevelt met with the Saudi King on the Suez after WW2.

    The arrangement was simple. "You get the oil, we get our faith and you don't interfere". Until the first Iraq war of course when the Saudi's were terrified of invasion and requested assistance but that's nether here nor there.

    That was the deal then, it's the deal today.

    It's for Saudi Arabia to run it's country as it sees fit.

    You can't complain about US interference on the one hand and then complain about the lack of interference on the other.

    Which is it?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    When’s the last time the US were imperialistic? Aren’t their military bases around the world by invitation? Also they seem to have far fewer colonies and outside territories than your standard ‘imperialistic’ nations.

    The petro-dollar would be the example that comes to my mind that guarantees their hegemony.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    What lack of interference am I complaining about? You didn't answer the question I asked at all. You claimed the people of Ireland should be thankful to the US for their endeavours in the Middle East, I'm not thankful one bit for the invasion of Iraq or the destruction of Libya in Africa.

    The US supported the Saudi led coalition in Yemen, under first the Obama and then the Trump administration, the United States was Saudi Arabia’s partner in this horrific war. Biden announced last February the US was ending it's support for Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen, six years into the conflict that has killed around 230,000 people and triggered the world’s worst humanitarian crisis, although they haven't stopped it's all just rhetoric to save face and distance themselves from the worst humanitarian situation in the world.

    You never answered the question why should I or the people of Ireland be thankful for all of this like you claimed we should be? You are absolutely deluded from American propaganda and Hollywood movies. This isn't a GI JOE movie this is real life that is destroying people's lives on a scale far beyond anything your worst enemies Putin or Xi Jinping are doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I think the OP was referring to imperialistic by proxy rather than in the old fashioned 1800s sense of the word, by the way who invited them into Iraq?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    What would you like the US to do? It's a policy of Saudi Arabia in Yemen, not the United States.

    So, what would you like them to do?

    You say correctly the Saudi's do terrible things in Yemen. So presumably you support some sort of interference, right?

    So why is it ok to interfere in Saudi business because they do terrible things, but not in Iraq given the terrible things Saddam had done to his own people?

    You either want interference or you don't.

    You are trying to have it both ways.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    They should not be supporting the coalition for one, I don't think you understand that they are allies with Saudi Arabia in Yemen which has fuelled the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. You don't seem to even be aware of this judging by your previous posts so here's an article to fill you in

    Under first the Obama and then the Trump administration, the United States was Saudi Arabia’s partner in this horrific war. The war in Yemen is a war that the United States has supported and remains deeply involved in. They may not be able to stop the situation they helped create. The US began providing logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry to the Saudi Arabia-led coalition in Yemen in March 2015.

    Similar to the Russians in Donbas the Americans are not directly involved in the war in Yemen but they are providing them with support. The situation in Donbas is a picnic party compared to what's going on in Yemen, yet you are quick to condemn Russia for supporting rebels in Donbas but you cannot bring yourself to condemn US support for the Saudi led coalition which has fuelled the worst humanitarian crisis in the world.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Again I ask you what would you like the US to do?

    You are speaking about the crisis in Yemen. The US does not actively support the situation in Yemen.

    What do you want them to do about it?

    You have tied yourself in knots now because if you say you want them to do nothing - then do you really care?

    If you say they should interfere that makes you a hypocrite in relation to Iraq.

    So you either don't really care or you're a hypocrite, right? You want interference but you don't want interference.

    Can you not see how these things a lot more complex than portrayed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I have not tied myself in knots, you're not making any sense. Biden said last year the US is going to stop supporting the Saudi led coalition but this was just words it has not happened. A Saudi-led and US-backed coalition intervened in Yemen in 2015. I was not asking them to do anything about it I was simply stating the destruction the USA has caused around the world citing Iraq, Libya, Yemen and others, and I was asking you how they are doing this for the freedom of Ireland like you claimed?

    I feel like I'm talking to a bot, you're not acknowledging anything I said and are repeating the same nonsense over and over. If you believe the USA have nothing to do with the war in Yemen you must also believe the Russians have nothing to do with the war in Donbas? As I said before The US began providing logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry to the Saudi Arabia-led coalition in Yemen in March 2015, yet you still say they have never actively supported the situation in Yemen.

    Post edited by Harryd225 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    You won't answer the question.

    What do you want the US to do about it?

    You want them to interfere? Smack the Saudis around a bit? Bang a fist on a table in front of the King?

    You don't want them to interfere? Then it just goes on.

    Do you not see how each option makes your arguments look empty and facile?

    This is what happens with simplistic opinions on complex situations. No solutions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Brilliant. If the other thread is anything to go by, this is the perfect thread to prattle on at length about the history of Russian imperialism, expansionism and warmongering.

    Where shall we start? Perhaps the fact that Outer Manchuria (modern day Vladivostok and Primorsky Krai and environs) was stolen from China via unequal treaty under the barrell of a gun.

    And that's just an appetiser. Plenty more Russian imperialism to drone on about, and if the Putin boyscouts club are to be consistent with the other thread, it's all 100 percent on-topic. Who knows братья, you might just learn something in here.

    *tounge firmly in cheek*



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    You're not making any sense, what do I want them to do about it? A Saudi-led and US-backed coalition intervened in Yemen in 2015.

    Well for a start I would have not wanted them to have backed the coalition and not provided the Saudis with logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry for the Saudis to go and ruthlessly bomb thousands of innocent men, women and children helping the Saudis cause the worst humanitarian situation in the world. Does that answer your question? Apparently the US has stopped supporting the Saudi led coalition less than a year ago but this is just rhetoric, they are still providing them with weapons and intelligence, you are failing to understand that the US have supported the war in Yemen, they were partners with Saudi Arabia in this war up until last year.

    I don't think you understand or have any clue what has been going on in Yemen for the last several years, you have still not answered my question how have US endeavours in the Middle East fought for the freedom of the people of Ireland like you claimed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    How about you address Russia's history of imperialism and the theft of Outer Manchuria from China?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,902 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    You won't answer the question because it makes you look ridiculous.

    I'm not wasting my time. I have my answer. You're a hypocrite.

    Good night to you sir.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Your question: what do you want the US to do about it?

    My answer copied and pasted: I want them to have not backed the Saudi coalition and not provided the Saudis with logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry for the Saudis to go and ruthlessly bomb thousands of innocent men, women and children helping the Saudis cause the worst humanitarian situation in the world, I want them to stop providing weapons and intelligence to Saudi Arabia in support of their war in Yemen.

    The US began providing logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry to the Saudi Arabia-led coalition in Yemen in March 2015, they were partners with Saudi Arabia in this war. If you meant what would I want the USA to do about it if they weren't part of the war then I'd want them to treat the Yemeni situation the same way they are treating the Ukrainian one.

    As anyone can see I've answered his question about 5 times, he's not making any sense, I think he's just trying to spam the thread so people can't see his previous post claiming that the people of Ireland should be grateful for US endeavours in the middle East as they have been fighting for out freedom.

    Post edited by Harryd225 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    This is great, now we can discuss America's interference in Eastern Europe on two threads! 😆

    Nice try OP.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The interesting thing is that any time anyone seeks to refer to American behaviour in that other thread, the poster is told that it's a thread about Russia.. not the US. This thread, however, is about the US, and now some posters want to deflect away from the US to consider Russia or China.

    Hilarious.

    Out of curiosity, is there anywhere else, that posters on boards should be discussing/criticising the US? (without it being pointed instead at China/Russia)



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