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McEntee launches Garda recruitment drive. Is this just lip service?

  • 11-02-2022 12:19pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭


    Recruiting for 800 police officers.

    If there were 800 newly recruited officers in Dublin alone it feels like it would only be a drop in the bucket.

    A national cultural shift is the long term aim of law enforcement development in Ireland.

    That trash/scumbag culture has been glamorized amongst so many factions and been allowed to flourish for far too long.

    Adequate law enforcement is the ONLY means it's ever going to be addressed.

    .......

    Not to mention McEntee has been posting ad nauseum about the supposedly wonderful job law enforcement have been doing on the DART and the Luas in tackling social misconduct.

    In all my journey's on said transport I don't think I've ever seen a single officer so much as put his face around one of the carriage doors, and on almost every occasion one is almost assured to see some kind of anti-social behaviour.

    Last week I was waiting to get off at middle abbey St.

    Some 6 ft skobe came violently charging down the carriage with a can of dutch-gold in his hand, roughly forcing his way past everyone, and before exiting the carriage turned to one dark skinned passenger, grabbed his crotch a bellowed, "hey you, I'll ryde your missus", before barreling through the 6 pm commuters on the platform outside.

    ........

    Yeah Helen, you've really got the justice department on top of things, and ensuring law enforcement maintain a basic level of civil social conduct is clearly at the top of the agenda (/sarcasm).

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I see they still haven't scrapped the upper age limit of 35 despite the WRC judgement and the Policing Commission recommendation (not that I'd be applying anyway!).



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Complains there are not enough police on the streets ........

    Complains about a recruitment drive for the police.........



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    I know a dude 50+ and he'd kick everyone's ass.

    They want as much competent law enforcement street officials as possible.

    Provided they vet applicants adequately and ensure they can perform under heat, I say all is right with the world.

    Look at Rony Coleman, dude is pushing 60, needs crutches to walk and has his entire spine wrapped in a titanium cage, but you'd better believe he'd still hand most of the Dublin bad-boy (and bad-girl) populous their ass.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gardai don't want members who can kick ass. It's against the law to assault someone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Not just that, but with the variety of modern policing roles (cyber crime, white collar crime investigation etc), you'd really think that AGS would be trying to attract slightly older people with these skillsets into the force and not excluding them. It's not all vaulting over hedges chasing scaldies.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    The threat of or potential for violence, is the most effective preventative measure against the manifestation of violence (and misconduct).

    Drew Harries and the Department of Justice really need to pull their head out of the clouds and come to terms with that fact, sooner rather than later.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    Absolutely agree but I think this recruitment is specifically for patrol, beat and street based officers in urban and community settings;

    According to Helen in the video.

    And to me and those who traverse such settings daily, it's clear that this in an area that definitely requires a healthy injection of fresh talent ASAP.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    There are, as far as I'm aware, no special commission's into AGS. Your future cyber crime / white collar crime specialists all come from the same cadet pool that go through Templemore such as this one. Perhaps people that don't have the aptitude for it or learn on the fly.

    Getting rid of the age ceiling would be a good measure to not exclude slightly older people who may have good skills to offer the force but are otherwise not permitted to join.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    how about not letting rapists and murderers in from other countries and giving them houses and benefits for life when we have thousands of our own homeless or on the verge of it. More useless gardai will not help.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is someone letting murderers and rapists into Ireland??!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    More Gardai won’t help Bohs win the league, which is about as relevant as your post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Unpopular woke soft-c*ck opinion: Violence in society can't be policed away. You can maybe catch it at the end of the funnel and clobber it over the head with a baton once it manifests (maybe), but it's best tackled by treating addiction as a health rather than a criminal issue, community focused policing rather than reactive Judge Dredd type policing, and a whole society effort to reduce economic exclusion.

    Lastly, mental health services and interventions in this country need a serious reboot - I'd wager that if you went into Mountjoy with an army of clinical psychologists, the level of hitherto undetected mental health issues is probably off the charts and probably issues that could have been intervened and treated in childhood or early adulthood. Too late for them as they've already done damage to society and are doing porridge, but as a mental excericse, consider how many of them could have been prevented from reaching a place in their life where they needed to be taken out of circulation for however long.

    For instance, last time I checked, countries with tough guy policing like the US and the gendarmerie in France still have significant violence and public order issues running through their society and have had for a long time.

    Policing should be more visible and present in problem areas yes, but a RoboCop corps of police officers up and down the country isn't desireable or necessary, and you'll probably find it generates more problems than it solves if you got your wish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,897 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Gas. Meanwhile a Fine Gael TD describes his experience of a walk across the center of the capital city.

    A dangerous place? Deeply concerned for your personal safety? See for yourself?

    A Fine Gael TD.

    A pretty damning indictment of his colleague.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Violence has existed since man stood upright and will continue until the last man is horizontal on the ground. Hug-a-thug is just the latest pointless fad in trying to make it go away. Some people are just feral, same as some animals. If an animal is feral it is put down. Can't say that about Wacker with 179 violent convictions though, he just needs a hug and someone to talk to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭thefallingman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    That’s one person’s opinion.

    Ive done that walk numerous times and never felt in danger.

    Maybe he’s a snowflake?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,897 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Are you not concerned that serious reputational damage is being done to the city? Whether you believe it or not, perception matters.

    The perception is that Dublin is unpoliced and unsafe. Ergo people then stay away.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    Slight over analysis.

    Garda have little to no presence in Irish society in comparison to other european cities that are infinitely more beautiful and pleasant places to live in.

    Increase Garda presence, simple.

    Some notion that social issues of scum culture doing what they do (spreading degeneracy) will just evaporate is a notion I would not expect any responsible governor would buy into.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More police is pointless unless there's extra prison spaces.

    Preventative policing is a joke, but most of these scumbags get to the courts, over and over, and that's where the real problems start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    I was in town last weekend on Friday and Saturday night, and there wasn't much signs of people staying away.

    Place was packed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    I don't agree.

    It takes police on the street illustrating what is right and wrong, what's acceptable and what's not to alter the ethos of an environment.

    Right now Dublin is more or less a free-for-all.

    Zero meaningful police presence.

    This is what Helen is claiming to address, but I must be honest I don't have a lot of faith in that woman.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,278 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I have to agree with other posters, yeah, more police presence is grand, but the career criminals won't suddenly stop because there's more Gardai around. With the additional Gardai (and yes, 800 is a start but needs to be closer to 2K imo), they also need to build and staff another prison and make proper sentences then. As pointed out, once you get past 10 convictions for similar offences, there's no hope of changing them, and quite simply madness to have people with 100+ convictions walking the streets. Those who want to change will change with what is currently available to them. Those who don't, won't, and never will. The punishment is not deterring the crime.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Waste of time recruiting more gardai, when the real issue is a piss weak judiciary and few prison places. Automatic consecutive sentencing, and if the prisons are full, just keep stuffing them in. The existing gardai are arresting, the DPP is prosecuting, but it seems such a waste of time, when the scum are not confined to prison for any meaningful time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    In other words, more welfare handouts. God forbid we teach people to work for a living instead of telling them from the day they're born that de Guvvement owes them a living and that they're ENTITLED to dis and have A RIGHT to dat.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,809 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I do wonder how many Gardai will be retiring for the to recruit 800.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Policing should be more visible and present in problem areas yes, but a RoboCop corps of police officers up and down the country isn't desireable or necessary, and you'll probably find it generates more problems than it solves if you got your wish.

    For all the problems that China has, in 13 years living there, I never once felt afraid walking around (except in the countryside or outer suburbs), because there was a police van/office on every street corner, or within sight of two corners. 12 million people in the city I lived in, and violent crime was mostly a rarity. Still happened, but the police (even with the problems with corruption and crap) managed to keep the areas mostly safe. Far safer than what I've seen or heard of, since I returned home two years ago.) Whereas in the non-policed areas of China, things were more... dodgy, but still better than here.

    There is a lot of value in maintaining a police presence on our streets, and roads. Seeing the police cruising around at night would help in a major way, even without having actual boots on the ground. TBH I'd be hard pressed to remember the last time I saw a Garda officer just walking around in the evening. Maybe that happens in Dublin, but... in my hometown of 21k people, it's rare.. very rare. I see them the odd time in Galway city, but not really that much either.

    There is a chronic shortage of police presence on the streets of Irish towns, and cities...

    However, more Police is not the answer, by itself. More Police, better sentencing, and actually keeping criminals in jail to properly serve their sentences would contribute the most towards resolving our problems,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Fistfights on the street or drunken public order events are rarer in China, but there's plenty of violence behind closed doors if you want to go looking for it. People beating the crap out of their wives or children or mass stabbings at the extreme end of things. Why you see less public order incidents and visible violence in the public realm is a matter of conjecture and probably best suited a long anthropology essay and less to do with police boxes. The roots are likely hundreds or thousands of years old. China is a shame-based culture, and the philosophy of Legalism (which still manifests itself today in ways in China) meant collective punishment of families or even communities for the actions of an individual was the norm for a very long time.

    I saw more than a few instances of hair-trigger violence from typically middle-age males who drive a German car, wear polo shirts smoking Zhonghua cigarettes (I'm sure you know the type) when they felt they were affronted by whoever. It's less random, but the ugly side of China and violence is right there under the surface.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    the mass stabbing seems to be the Chinese equivalent of the high school shooter.. Pathetic adult male, stab attack on primary schools usually.

    They had a few jihad mass casualty stab jihad attacks on railway stations a few years ago. The chinese state came down hard and they are over. I am sure France wishes it could act the same way



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,875 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Right now there are is about 1 Garda to every 345 people in the Country with an extra 800 added will make it about 1 Garda to every 325 people in the Country.

    Is anyone really going to notice that difference especially when those 800 are out and about on the beat using that TD's example walking from the Spire to St Stephen's green realistically that's no extra Garda at all or at the most just one that stretch.

    The main streets of most towns in Ireland could do with extra Gardai walking them every night not just Dublin City Centre.

    800 Gardai won't put a dent in how many are needed and those already here are wasted arresting the same Adam and Paul's for the 400th time on to see them get the same slap on the wrist for the 400th time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    Essentially that's what your post amounts to though. The problem is we've had at least forty years or so now of the whole "oh the poor crims, it's not their fault, it's their environment, if only we try to understand them and give them more welfare they'll stop being scumbags." In fact the opposite has happened. The growth of welfare dependency and the entitlement culture means that the concept of personal responsibility has gone out the window. Allied to this we have the lenient judicial system whereby thugs are free to roam the streets with 70+ convictions, knowing they can keep being scumbags with little or no consequence. And at the bottom of this pyramid of nonsense are the Guards, who are actively discouraged from using physical force to uphold the law. No one wants a return to the days of the 1970's heavy gang but cops who aren't allowed to touch toe rags for fear of being disciplined is obviously a recipe for disaster.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's 800 being recruited this year.

    how many are leaving? How many have joined over the last few years?

    This will make no visible difference at all. In the years since the commissioner took over, there is the highest number of gardai ever but yet the lowest ever visible presence. There are no small local stations left in the country, no local guard living in the station house in the village. They have all been centralised into bigger centres, further away. There are hundreds of kilometres of the countryside that never see gardai, particularly at night time.

    North inner city Dublin has no visible Garda presence, South inner city however is the opposite. How is that allowed to happen?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,103 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    Well done Rambo. Give yourself a pat on the back on how macho you are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fistfights on the street or drunken public order events are rarer in China, but there's plenty of violence behind closed doors if you want to go looking for it.

    Of course there is.. But in terms of general public safety on the streets, it is a far safer environment than what is currently happening in Ireland. Oh, I'm well aware of how common domestic abuse or inter-couple violence that occurs, just as I know that school violence is a real problem that they've been forced to confront, but that's neither here nor there. China being a traditionally shame based culture is one of the interesting things about the culture, in that it's encouraged but many people resist living that way. The point was about having police around in an obvious way, and that it does improve things.

    I don't feel safe on the streets of my hometown in the evenings or at night. I did in China. That's the difference that is important. Even in a city twice the population of Ireland, I felt safer there, than in a mid-sized town in Ireland of 20k people.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭malk518


    Just more noise. Will go the same as their international healthcare worker plea during the pandemic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    That's why I'm trying to figure out whether this "recruitment drive" is just McEntee's attempt at lip service, something like her laughable social media posts about the supposedly affirmative action of on An Garda on public and private transport.

    What Ireland requires is that cultural shift away from the scum-bag'ery and trash that it hasn't had the minerals to stand up to and address, essentially since its inception.

    A song and dance being made about 800 police officers, I means realistically what impact is that going to have on so much a single locale or district, let alone the culture of an entire nation?

    IMO it just looks like a scapegoat measure and attempt to throw a blanket over - not the situation - but awareness of the situation, and side step her obligation as minister for justice to address it.

    Irish police force needs a revolution, not a pity pat on the back that this weak attempt from McEntee is evidence of.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Really?? Wow who knew Athlone was so tough. I’ve only been there once or twice for a visit but it seemed benign enough for a small town? (I live in the west) Why do you feel that the environment there is more dangerous than in some bigger cities?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Athlone has improved hugely over when I was a teenager there, although that's not really the point. Last weekend a group of teenagers chased a man in his 30s through parts of the town, and beat the crap out of him. That wouldn't have happened if there were Gardai patrolling, and that it was reliable known element... but instead, it's rare that you see any Gardai on the streets, except around the cop shop itself.

    And I didn't say "some bigger cities". I referred to China because they have a police presence almost everywhere in their cities... and it shows in how little crime happens around them. It was in relation to a point another poster made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2




  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    There are no small local stations left in the country, no local guard living in the station house in the village.

    There are still hundreds of small "one-man" Garda stations in the country remaining. I would suggest closing them all - I'm not sure what role they play in law enforcement in the country - waste of human and financial resources. 150-200 regular police stations would be more than enough for a country of Ireland's size, instead of 550+ we have now.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No there are not, they have closed most.

    the role they play is that the guard is part of the locality, he knows everybody, he knows family dynamics, he knows neighbour feuds, he knows if someone has domestic family issues, he knows strangers in the area. He knows what goes on. He is also accessible to his community, people might approach him in a 'off the record ' type of way, have a chat outside the post office etc tell him something that they wouldn't think important to bother gardai about, in a normal day.

    he has the local knowledge and the trust of the community. Calling a station in an emergency, 50/60 km away looking for a car, which drives in and away again, with no interest whatsoever in what happens in the community, is a massive step backwards in policing in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    The power of arrest is not needed for most of those types of jobs. Specialists can be hired directly for them.

    Guards need to be doing jobs that requires them to use their mandated powers.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Those one man stations serve as resting spots for the Gardai sent out on patrols in the countryside. The vast majority of Gardai are aimed at the population centres but they'll be sent out to "show their presence" in the rural areas, and drop off in those smaller stations for a cup of tea, or whatever. I don't know the ins, and outs of it, but I've had friends in the force talk about it a bit.

    A big problem with Ireland is that we've seen Gardai taken away from rural areas so that they move to Dublin or the other population centres.. but I'd be curious as to how effective that has been.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,198 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Not at all. I've seen enough films with Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan to know that they are all kung-fu master triad gangsters. Although a great bunch of lads at the same time.



    Sure Bruce even beat Chuck Norris 😮



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