Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Getting Finance to sign off on the budget increases and the manpower retention policies I would be, remember pay was outside the direct mandate of the Report but really needs to be dealt with first to both end the losses and to start trying to build up to the numbers from where we are now.

Better to get 12 fighters of quality I guess then cheaper versions.

As for ships it's going interesting to see what dod will agree to purchase/if

If we need fighters, our needs are European needs. 4.5 generation fighters that cannot be usefully integrated with their aircraft will not be up to much.

Waving at stricken airliners or Russian bombers in peacetime does not strike me as a valuable use of resources, which will always be in limited supply even if tripled, as is now proposed.

It's F35 or whatever else is adopted in Europe or nothing, in my view.

Cathal Berry on RTE saying that the basics would be addressed if the Defence budget was increased to Eu 1.5 Bn. Given that the majority of the existing budget is spent on wages and allowances, how much more would be consumed from the extra Eu 400 m he's talking about? It won't go very far if you take a chunk out for wages. The public think that the entire DF budget is spent on guns and ships; it isn't. As for MSA, it is deliberately defined an an allowance to stop it being rolled into basic pay and forcing pensions up.

Oh I agree, but that might not mean the politicians listen to the Commission, I mean Coveney said that Option 2 was a "huge ask", €400m, a huge ask??

to be fair, you will not add €400 m extra in one year, incremental steps of €100m per annum, that’s €200m in year 2, €300m in year 3 and so on. The capacity to absorb the additional expenditure needs to be ramped up. Level 2 is a credible and achievable medium term target. Reality is stage 3 will be a push, the usual suspects will balk at jet aircraft etc. To be fair to Coveney he seems to be genuinely committed to increased investment, backing of cabinet is key

I googled it, and now I understand it’s exactly what I thought I fail to see what difference having the equipment to do it would make to us. You’re right that I didn’t read all the previous posts (did anyone) but I’m sceptical that an air police would be much use to Ireland. Seems a lot like Trump’s space force, or a chocolate teapot.

Did anyone? Yes we did! And we are aware of requirements for the AC.

Seen as you won’t read, you should watch and listen.

This is an example of a QRA.

Exactly what was explained to you by Dohvolle and other persistent knowledgeable legacy posters in here.

We currently have none of the equipment shown in this clip. WE NEED THIS EQUIPMENT!

We need it for the safety of the state assets and for the safety of transatlantic flight crossing Shanwick ORA (You would need to Google that) as the Russian Air Force are persistently breaching Irish air space with transponders turned off and risk a mid air collision or any dangerous means they wish to cause.

The UK have provided us with a free service doing this but it is no longer feasible due to brexit and costs to there taxpayer among other sticky issues.

I was resisting answering other posts you made as they hold no creditable back up but I really think you need to research this before posting.

Lastly re your last post, you stated similar to we would not shoot it down, the point in having the air asset is not for chauffeur it is actually have a presence to defend yourself and alert other flight in its path to avoid the non responding aircraft.

The clip answers all you need to know.

Casement isn't likely, as the first QRA that takes off at full thrust will most likely have everyone in Dublin demanding their heads no matter what (particularly if it's a night time response for whatever reason). As commented before sticking any fighters and the MPA aircraft out at Shannon makes the most sense really. Plenty of space at the airfield, reasonable distance from heavily populated areas (or at least as much as you get in Ireland), reasonably well policed after the amount of issues with protestors and the US flights. There would also be a huge cost of living drop for those moved out there compared to having to commute to Casement, though do have the counter issue of those that are now fully settled in to their local areas.

Given the purchase of fighters even in the Report is suggested as one of the "long aims" rather than any immediate buy in, there's time to work through that issue.

nobody mentioned shoot down a Russian aircraft but if needs to be done I would amassing precautions would be put in place we would be a bit complaint that when turkey shot down a Russia jet for incursion into its airspace, I digress, I mentioned collision not a shoot down. If a TU95 has its transponder turn off, ATC cannot see it either can another airline as it does not alert on an airlines TCAS.

The enormous cost you speak off is unfortunately part and parcel of been a government department, at the moment it is costing the exchequer more than anything. I’m not one take usually crap talk of oh it needs to go into housing/HSE or justice(although it’s needed bad there too).

The cost would have been a lot less if the government acted on the reports previous to one. There was a cheaper opportunity at a lesser crisis point and the government(s) did not act on them.

They will most certainly think twice about as they will be escorted by two nations rather than one.

with Kaliningrad so close these incursions we cannot afford to chance with lives in the air.

incident over Sweden

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-no-sweden-jet-near-miss-30834894.html

Install a primary for the purpose of a report, it’s a bit like calling the gards and getting a call taker do a report while someone takes your car before sending anyone.

A threat assessment needs to be done, everything was in the QRA video I sent, you would like all that too handled here and then dispatch the RAF to respond, good luck swinging that by them.

I’m not replying in depth, as your border belief has been proven wrong on a number occasions through this thread. As the example I have given you occurred in Sweden it is meant to project the seriousness of flying without a transponder, rather than it occurring because they are neighbours. You may ask yourself why is Russia doing the same method of movement in/around Ireland (constantly) as they did over Sweden, Why are they doing it? Why not over Germany or between the Netherlands and UK, they choose Ireland…why?

im not revisiting these points again but look at our location and look up what we provide the EU from the US that is very valuable to Russia, and challenge that with how we can stop it for being damaged or taken. You’ll find we have nothing in armoury to do anything from the sky, scope of rifle or from a cyber point.

I wouldn’t be Coveneys biggest fan but he stated a very important fact yesterday that we have been naive.

Regardless of where Russia is on map they still are a threat to national security.

please also note these aircraft will be used for other reasons not just chasing Russians.

And do we really want to risk the retention issues of sticking people in Knock?

I'm far from an expert on military matters but I can't help suspect that including fighter aircraft in the Level of Ambition 3 was a way of encouraging the government to accept the Level of Ambition 2 proposals. Therefore there is very little chance the Air Corps will get fighter aircraft.

As a citizen I'm genuinely puzzled by this report and recommendations. Look any half informed fool could have told us that our defence forces are inadequate to protect the state. It didn't need a fancy report produced at a cost to tell us that.

I'd also question just exactly what bang for our buck do we get from the Dept of Defence budget?

The army seems to exist largely for ceremonial purposes and to be on standby to deal with small numbers of subversives. Lads spend a lot of time in barracks, using up ammo down in Glen Imaal and occasional trip abroad to keep them motivated, add a bit of training and a bit of extra pay.

The air corps seems to exist to transport politicians.

The navy is arguably the most useful in terms of patrolling and monitoring smuggling and illegal fishing.

And that's about it. If personnel could be utilised more in dealing with issues arising from weather, crowd control and needs of LAs.. you'd see there's some value for money but otherwise?