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Theatre Performers subjected to racist abuse in Dublin

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wouldn't suggest anyone use Twitter.

    But no I wouldn't imagine anyone in Nigeria would care about someone shouting at you.

    But that's not to say that anyone in Ireland shouldn't care about some little bastards shouting racial abuse at people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    How about compared to the rest of the EU? "In a report published in December 2017 by the EU Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA), Ireland ranked highest among the EU Member States in which respondents from a sub-Saharan background experienced 6 or more physical attacks due to their ethnic or immigrant background in the 5 years preceding the survey (21% of respondents compared to the EU group average of 9%). 8% of respondents in Ireland reported having experienced 6 or more physical attacks due to their ethnic or immigrant background in the 12 months prior to the survey, compared to an EU group average of 2%."



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,770 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    A load of posts deleted

    If you have an issue with a post or poster report it and leave the modding to the mods

    Now back on topic



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Based on speaking to a Nigerian work colleague, I think being racially abused would be the least of your worries if you went to Lagos without some paid security with you. But yeah, Irish people are the big meanies.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Those statistics are incredibly high. So 1 in 10 Sub-Saharan people in Ireland have been physically attached 6 times in the 12 months before the survey? Sorry but that makes Ireland sound worse than Rhodesia or apartheid South Africa. Of course I can't say people are lying. But I am entitled to my opinion and I believe that is complete nonsense. I wonder how the question was phrased and what constitutes physical attack and mostly I wonder who committed the physical attacks? The implication is that the attackers were white Irish people but are there more details?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The report was done by groups which have a vested interest in reporting racism in countries, but apparently it's wrong to suggest that these NGOs or other bodies would have a bias in promoting certain viewpoints. Besides, if you look at the report itself, the numbers of incidents reviewed is quite low.

    Still.. I have to wonder. Take Spain for example, who have a much higher population of those from Africa, have had dealings with immigration for a longer period, and have much worse general crime than Ireland... I've been to Spain, and have heard Spanish people openly speak racist views about African immigrants, but somehow Ireland is going to be worse? It doesn't make much sense to me.

    Personally, I'd say that there is an agenda being pushed in Ireland to make racism more than it is. Does it happen? Yes, definitely. However, is it truly worse than other larger countries with bigger migrant populations? I seriously doubt it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I can understand some NGOs have a vested interest in inflating the size of the racism problem. Their livelihood's depend on them solving the problem after all. If racism disappeared they'd be out of a job.


    But I don't understand why some ordinary people seem to swallow these claims whole without stopping to think about them. I mean the stats in the above post indicate sub-Saharan immigrants to Ireland have suffered 6 or more physical attacks. Not 6 attacks ever. But 6 attacks in the past 12 months before the survey? Just thinking about that as an intelligent adult you would have to realise how unbelievable that is. Which makes the rest of the "statistics" seem very suspicious to me. I mean how unlucky would you have to be as a black person in Ireland to suffer not just one physical attack on the basis of race, but SIX in the space of a year? And 8% of people reported this? It's simply BS.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    The same questions would have been asked in each country.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    These 6 attacks include just about anything under the guise of racism or supposed discriminatory practices, so if someone said something that was perceived by the victim to be racist, then that would be considered just as bad as racial violence.

    Ordinary people swallow these things because we're encouraged to accept the views of those with some kind of authority.. real or not. There's little interest, by most people, to dig into reports and check the records used.. or even to verify who funded the research and why.

    Still... TBH, from living in China, which is recognised as a rather racist culture, if you go looking for racism, you'll find it. You can assign racism as a reason for everything negative that happens.. even when it's not actual racism, but because you're a distinct minority and it matches with the persecution complex that many people get from living in a country where most other people are of a different ethnic group. I've done it myself, but came to realise what I was doing, when I listened to the near constant complaints of other foreigners in China, and it made me understand what I was doing... but obviously other ethic groups would never do that.. yup.

    Which is why I'm more than a little suspicious of these kind of claims.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber



    Haha people are to lazy to find out who funded the research.

    Well who did then Klaz?

    I have pasted the details of the body who published the report. Can you tell me what your issues with this body are?


    FRA – European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights

    Schwarzenbergplatz 11 – 1040 Vienna – Austria

    Tel. +43 1580 30-0 – Fax +43 1580 30-699

    Email: info@fra.europa.eu – fra.europa.eu



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you really believe 8% of sub-Saharan Africans could subjected to SIX physical attacks on the basis of their race over a period of 12 months? I personally think it sounds like absolute BS. I think deep down most sane people would realise that if that happened to even 1% of sub-Saharan Africans, it would be extremely unlucky for them to encounter not just violent racists so many times repeatedly, but violent racists who actually engaged in violence on each of those occasions. Deep down if you actually think about it you know it would be extremely improbable.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And which country was the best in that survey? Who is the gold standard that we should be aspiring to?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Why don't you read the report if you are so interested.

    You wouldn't want to be one of those lazy people klaz alluded to.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well the website is a babbling brook of BS but from what I can tell the UK is the best country. That's interesting. What are the UK doing that Ireland is not doing? Are the British less racist than the Irish?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,564 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I'm afraid the discussion is going down another rabbit hole.

    There is racism in Ireland as there is in every country.

    There is no acceptable level of racism.

    The theatre performers in the thread title were victims of racist abuse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,564 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Some people would prefer you to believe their hunch's and unsubstantiated claims rather than a report from a respected body.

    What happened to the Lion King people was racism in tooth and claw but it also exists in more subtle forms.

    We need to name it and deal with it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    But you said

    Well the website is a babbling brook of BS



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, based on those rubbish statistics which are barely credible. If you are being honest do you really believe 8% of sub-Saharan Africans could subjected to SIX physical attacks on the basis of their race over a period of 12 months? I personally think it sounds like absolute BS. I think deep down most sane people would realise that if that happened to even 1% of sub-Saharan Africans, it would be extremely unlucky for them to encounter not just violent racists so many times repeatedly, but violent racists who actually engaged in violence on each of those occasions. Deep down if you actually think about it you know it would be extremely improbable.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭frosty123


    Ya that's what we like to think but we're not, we're still too ignorant & insular to be classed as friendly, anyway there's far more friendlier races in the world (and I include the English in that esp the middle-class english)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some people would prefer you to believe their hunch's and unsubstantiated claims rather than a report from a respected body.

    Who is expecting you to accept their unsubstantiated claims as facts or evidence of any kind? They're opinions.. nothing more, nothing less.

    It's what happens on these kind of threads. People discuss topics, and express their opinions. If they wanted to convince you, they would get some facts to support their positions... if they merely wanted to express their opinions, then, there's no need for those facts/evidence, because they're not trying to convince you of anything.

    I find the report to be suspicious, due to what I've seen abroad, compared to what I've seen in Ireland. I don't have any evidence to prove some bias in the report, but then, I don't need to. I'm not suggesting that my opinion is fact...



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,564 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You certainly are entitled to your opinion.

    This is not my opinion it is fact - we have racists in Ireland and some of them abused the Lion King people.

    They are our problem and we need to deal with them.

    If you want to research racism in Ireland there are lots of reports available online.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    I have a few Eastern European friends and they have got abuse. I was even present once when it happened. There's countless stories of Eastern Europeans being attacked in Ireland so it certainly does happen. You only have to read the threads here complaining about Eastern European migrants affecting housing, jobs etc.

    Post edited by MarkEadie on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,538 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Someone got trotting round the inner city late at night and gets abused or battered.

    Next up on tonight's news: Pope announces he is Catholic. Also a bear is caught doing his business in the woods.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is not my opinion it is fact - we have racists in Ireland and some of them abused the Lion King people.

    Nobody has denied that we have racists in Ireland or that there was racist abuse involved. The discussion was about the intent behind the abuse, others are claiming that the intent doesn't matter, and claiming that talking about intent, is some kind of denial that racism was involved... it's not any such denial.

    The opinion vs fact was in related to the post I responded to, not the overall thread content.

    If you want to research racism in Ireland there are lots of reports available online.

    I'm aware.. it's not as if this is the first thread about racism in Ireland... it's all been discussed before, with relevant links being provided. However, posters can discuss the reports involved, and the motivations behind those reports if they wish, without it needing to be any attempt to convince others that they should accept those discussions as being fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    As you know yourself, most of these reports are done in the worst way possible. They start with a conclusion and work backwards, which is obviously terrible methodology. I doubt there's ever been a report done with the view of reaching the truth, and not reaching an ideological conclusion that suits said people. On top of that they are often created by NGOs or groups that have a financial incentive to reach said conclusion, because if the problem doesn't exist, or it isn't as bad as they claim, they may lose their funding.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber



    You haven't read this report, you dont even know who this report was written by but you know it is wrong.

    🤣🤣

    



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you really believe the stats? Like the 8% of sub-Saharan Africans that were physically assaulted because of their race SIX TIMES in the 12 months before the survey? If you stop and think about that you have to realise how unlikely that is. If that's one of the key takeaways from the survey and it's obviously a gross exaggeration, then it casts significant doubt on the validity of the rest of the report.


    I would class this as deliberate misinformation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Honestly, I worry about you, as you seem to imagine much, and understand little. It was a response to a statement that spoke about reports generally and not specifically:

    If you want to research racism in Ireland there are lots of reports available online.

    What are you even on about?

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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