Black Monday 2022 - NFL Coaching Carousel

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I'm all for black men being treated equally but you gotta earn the right to a head coaching job. Daboll has done that and for me him and Bieniemy were the two outstanding candidates for head coaching positions. I say those two because it's turned more and more into an offensive game these last few years.

The next coach in line for a head coaching position is Todd Bowlers. He has to get another shot.

This Rooney rule is stupid. You could interview 20 black men and one white man and still hire the white man. Perfect way for a racist white owner to hide.

The ideal scenario is that everybody ignores skin colour but it's hard to see that happen in the US unfortunately.

The way forward is to give people opportunities to work their way up and earn the right to be a head coach.

The snowflakes want black men who haven't earned the right to be given these jobs ahead of white men who have earned the right. That isn't fair to anybody, the man whose earned the shot should get it and the man who hasn't earned it shouldn't and it'll only make things worse if he gets it and fails.

Flores got a head coaching opportunity and failed. He was fired for taking Tua Tagovailoa over Herbert more than any other reason and to me that's fair enough. Did he earn the opportunity to be a head coach? I'm not sure he did as he was never a co-ordinator. He's a smart guy and he was with the most successful franchise of the last twenty years but I think you need to be a co-ordinator before you are a head coach.

So let's get more black men in as assistants and work their way through the ranks. That way there'll be loads of good candidates for head coaching positions in five years or a little longer.

That's how you change things, not with some stupid rule that you have to interview somebody when you've already decided who you want.

Living in an absolute fairytale land there.

Your whole post is based on an obviously false premise that current white head coaches and GMs 'earned' and then maintain their positions on merit and that black coaches that aren't being hired haven't 'earned their right'.

Rather than taking issue with what is happening currently that we have clear evidence of, you’re instead outraged to the point of name calling others at the potential that a non-white person might possibly get the same treatment and get something they haven’t earned. Your perspective is even more ridiculous after you just in the last week made excuses for obvious nepotism by white NFL coaches. Your fragility is clearly on show.

No one is saying anyone shouldn’t earn their job, they’re pointing out that currently there is no justification for how lopsided the numbers are when it comes to the race of coaches being hiring and retained and how there is no reasonable way to look at it that doesn’t come back to racial discrimination. The exact comments that you tried your best to excuse from Gruden’s character are the exact mindset of white owners, GMs, HCs who are decision makers and a key element of the problem.

Thats just complete bull and a real snowflake post.

You want it done now which in reality is never going to happen.

I'm giving a solution that you can't stop. Development of black coaches at the NFL level where they get experience and the good ones climb the ladder and have to get head coaching jobs because they've earned it.

This Rooney rule is complete codswallop. It's never changing anything.

I asked everybody to name the thirty two best people who have never been head coaches for those jobs. There wasn't one reply because none of you have a clue.

I named the three best coaches in my opinion, I don't think anybody disagreed with those names, two are black men

, one is white.

I can name who in my opinion are the best 32 candidates and unfortunately there's not many black men on the list.

That's what has to change, more black coaches have to be brought in at the bottom level to work their way up. Solutions aren't instant, it takes time. If they populate the lower ranks of coaching fairly then in something like 5-7 years you'll have a lot more black coaches at the top table in the NFL.

Go tell me where I'm going wrong there.

Stats are history, I always look to the future and how to improve things.

You name Daboll, Bieniemy and Morris as the three top HC candidates in this cycle. Guess which one of those has landed a HC gig? Some interviews for the other two, but no buzz that they will get a job.

....and just to add a bit to this, I do believe there was a wall which excluded minority candidates up until very recently in the NFL, where there was absolutely no chance of being hired for a Head Coach job, (Tom Flores being the only exception I can remember from that time) and that this pervaded the NFL through the 80's and into the early 90's, but it changed, probably too slowly in all honesty.

Maybe there are still the odd owners/GM who hold some backward belief, that a white head coach is better than a minority one, but surely that is, at this stage a rare exception, at least I would hope so. Mind you those Gruden emails might make one wonder.

There's one black head coach right now.

Flores had two winning sessions and was fired, same thing happened lovie Smith and he was replaced by an absolute screwball from the cfl who absolutely never would have been hired if he was black.

The main way to be a hc is to be an oc first and succeed there. Bienemy and leftwich were the two offensive coordinators in last year's Superbowl and neither of them are head coaches despite fourteen teams getting new ones in the meantime, so this idea that of black people succeed at the coordinator job they'll eventually deserve their shot doesn't sit well with that. Meanwhile Matt Nagy was oc for the chiefs and was snapped up straight away. What on earth did that failure do that bienemy or leftwich didn't that made him deserving?

Agreed that the current head coach coming from the offensive side of the ball seems to have skewed things at the moment, as most of the black/hispanic coaches that get hired tend to be from he defensive side of the equation. That leads back to what an earlier poster mentioned about funneling and encouraging suitable candidates into those fields earlier, in college and high school.

Hiring young offensive minds is en vogue at the moment, and there is a dearth of minority candidates in the pool of prospects, why that is the case may indicate systemic racism, but that is a "football as a whole" problem, not solely an NFL problem. It may also indicate that black candidates do not enter the coaching system earlier for other reasons, perhaps as they are (more) successful athletes. Perhaps they are not currently encouraged into that direction and that is a problem, but for me, it does not point to NFL teams, in their entirety, discriminating against black and minority coaches.

Leftwich was reportedly in at Jacksonville had he dropped his demand to get rid of the GM/ Khan agreed and canned Baallke. Bienemy has quite a bit of baggage that would have to be taken on, as well as reports that he can be difficult. There's also the idea that he might be Gase-like, in that he is running an Andy Reid super powered offense in Kansas City that might not translate. Now how Gase got his second gig is another matter.

And bigots get more angry at the idea of minorities potentially getting an opportunity they did not quite earn than all the actual cases of white people who already get these same opportunities.

Who doesn't have rational solutions? The lawsuit includes several, including what you're calling for - more opportunities for black coaches at lower levels. What isn't rational is claiming you want those opportunities on the ground floor while at the same time championing nepotism, the exact thing that block minority coaches from opportunities.

You want to look at who 'earned it', look at the breakdown of the experience of the head coaches hired over the last 6 years. Time and again, chances are taken on young white coaches that simply aren't with young black coaches. Whether these risks turn out well for teams is a moot point unless you believe there is a fundamental reason why black coaches can't be as successful with similar opportunities. Evidence says it takes longer for black coaches to 'earn it', are quicker to be fired, and are less likely to get a second opportunity.

They'll be claiming Kevin O'Connell next if he does well with the Vikings...

I don't want to suggest that the Broncos are immune from the systemic racism that exists in the NFL - they are not. I will point out that they have responded to the claims by Flores who made three accusations. The first two appear to me to be unfounded - this third is clearly a lack of professionalism that could well be true and says more about Elway and Russell than about systemic racism.

1. The interview started an hour late - the interview was scheduled to start at 7.30am and the notes from the meeting indicate that it started on time. The interview was scheduled to last 3 1/2 hours which it did.
2. That he was only interviewed to satisfy the Rooney Rule. No evidence of this - the previous HC of the Broncos was Vance Joseph (appointed despite a clearly better candidate - Kyle Shanahan - who wanted the job, was wanted by Elway and whose appointment was blocked by Joe Ellis because of his personal animosity with Mike Shanahan).
3. Elway and Ellis turned up 'deshevelled' after a night of heavy drinking. Very unlikely with Ellis - he arrived in Rhode Island where the interview took place on his own from a different destination. I could belive the story about Elway and Russell - they had a reputation for regular major boozing sessions in the Broncos head office. Indeed - the boozing sessions were probably partly responsible for the shambles of coaching appointments and poor drafts post-Kubiak (it was known suggested that Elway, Russell and others in the Broncos draft room were on the tear for the entire draft weekend in 2017 - and it shows from the picks they made).

The Broncos also re-published comments made by Flores to the media after a Broncos/Dolphins game in 2020 -

“It was great, for me—doing my own background work and learning more about the Denver Broncos and their history, the Bowlen family and the great history that they have there as an organization. I was excited to interview with them. I thought it went well. It was great to meet the executives there and spend some time with them. I think Vic is a great coach. They got the right coach and the right people in place. It’s a talented team, that’s for sure. It was a good experience for me personally.”

However, there are clear issues with the carry-on of Ross and the antics of BB (none of which are a surprise). However,, nothing will be done - the NFL elites are already circling the wagons - and I think it would be very difficult to impossible for Flores to prove any of the allegations in such a way as to force a settlement from the NFL and/or the individual teams.

You have to ask questions about the motivation of Flores - is he doing this because of his belief that this action will prompt a major debate about systemic racism within the NFL (one of a numbr of systemic issues that the NFL has and has refused to address over the years)? - is it driven by a desire for a major financial settlement (which is unlikely to be forthcoming) - is it drive by ego and an arrogance that he deserves another HC job (when he was shown to be a nightmare to work for - just like all the BB clones). I would support him 100% if it was the first one - although I suspect it might be the last one.

On the upside - maybe this will provoke a necessary debate and necessary changes within the NFL (and the lack of black NFL coaches is also impacted by wider racism in American society) - and if it does then it is positive.

People have mentioned that "fewer black coaches have come through on the offensive side of the ball" for "myriad reasons". I would like to know what those reasons are, since it seems unlikely to have any non-racial explanation.

The argument that Bienemy and Flores are both "difficult" has also been made. Yet teams were tripping over themselves to hire Jim f**king Harbaugh, who is widely known to be a complete nightmare to deal with, and whose record of success in the NFL (and college for that matter) is not exactly gold-plated.

I am with you, quoting people is a nightmare on the new site.

Who is saying to push black coaches into positions when they are genuinely not ready? I hate repeating myself but all evidence says it takes longer for black coaches currently to 'earn it', are quicker to be fired, and are less likely to get a second opportunity. You're concerned about possibility of a glass cliff that is already happening despite the fact it is more difficult for black coaches to get the opportunity.

I don't believe all owners or GMs see there is 'an advantage to being white', however the is definitely subconscious bias at play.

On it currently being an 'anomaly rather than a trend' - to believe this you have to cover your eyes to all the data I've shared. Look at the race of the coaches who are getting early opportunities at HC in their career, look at who is being fired after successful seasons, look at who is getting second chances, look who is getting fired quickly and who gets more time to make things work.