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Auschwitz was liberated 77 years ago

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    #182
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,865 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563667#Comment_118563667

    Since you are not even being subtle in suggesting I am lying - go ahead and email her and ask if it's true: http://tomoko-yamamoto.com/

    Don't be fooled by the arty side, she also has a physics degree, or two, and taught that subject at a university in the US, before she moved to Austria. She's a big fan of Bach.



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    #183
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,245 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    I’m always amazed how many won’t condemn the Soviets just because they were communists. Both were terrible. Both had very little value for human life.



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    #184
    Hoop66
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560790#Comment_118560790

    Going by some of the replies in this thread? Yes.



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    #185
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    @cnocbui Since you are not even being subtle in suggesting I am lying

    What?

    What part of my post even suggested that you were "Lying"?



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    #186
    thefallingman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564539#Comment_118564539

    what a strange view, as is your response to Tony in relation to one person you spoke too, but each to their own i guess we can agree to disagree.



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    #187
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,865 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564660#Comment_118564660

    "That's merely her opinion, though, and I don't think that it could be backed by any serious dive into the matter."



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    #188
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564696#Comment_118564696

    How is that suggesting that you were lying?



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    #189
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,865 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564715#Comment_118564715

    My interpretation was that you were doubting I could back up the existence of the person and the nature of the conversation, as neither actually existed and that I made it all up. Since you are insisting that wasn't the meaning you intended, I suppose you meant that her opinion was wrong headed. If that was the intended meaning, I would have a problem with you opining you know better than a highly and broadly educated native Japanese person who was born there and lived through the post war era in Japan. It would be like her suggesting she knows more about Irish culture than a native Irish person would.



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    #190
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564836#Comment_118564836

    I'd tend to lean more towards Tony's conclusions on the necessity of using the bomb at all and it's a pretty valid view. The historiography is divided on it so there's absolutely no definitive view on it. It basically amounts to what view you subscribe to and that's about it. You'll also find Japanese people who subscribe to both views or more nuanced ones.



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    #191
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564836#Comment_118564836

    Well, then your interpretation is most definitely wrong. Nowhere was I even remotely suggesting that you were lying.

    However, your Japanese friend may have an assertion that the dropping of the A Bombs was both "necessary" and "justified". I would disagree with that and I don't believe that that assertion would stand up to a deeper analysis of it, regardless of where she's from. Many historians have disputed the necessity of using atomic weapons on Japan at that stage of the war and even people involved in the development of the weapon drafted a petition asking the US President to not use it.

    In any case, this is an entirely separate discussion and probably not one that should be had on a thread about Auschwitz.



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    #192
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,133 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564570#Comment_118564570

    The Soviet Union was an oppressive dictatorship and probably murdered (or caused the deaths of) tens of millions of people.

    I suppose what sets the Nazis apart though is that they systematically murdered millions of people who didn't even pose the slightest threat to them, including millions of women and children. I agree that both regimes had little or no regard for human life, but in terms of being purely evil, cruel and sadistic, the Nazis take the prize.



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    #193
    BurgerFace
    Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058230144/auschwitz-was-liberated-77-years-ago

    The BBC also didn't mention a thing about the Soviet Army who freed those in Auschwitz, Treblinka, Birkenau, Chelmno, Belsen, Majdanek, Buchenwald, Sobibor,...not a word.

    Not a SINGLE WORD about the Russians who liberated them.



    n



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    #194
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,865 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568807#Comment_118568807

    Well maybe because they would then have to mention stuff like this:

    "After Russia invaded Poland, Stalin deported 1.7 million Poles to slave labour camps in Siberia, Kazakhstan and the Arkhangelsk Oblast in the north, in cattle trucks. Journeys that lasted weeks until they reached camps where the Russians assured them that bourgeois Poland was finished.." http://polishatheart.com/the-wwii-polish-deportations-still-an-untold-story

    As many as 30,000 british troops 'liberated' by Russia from German POW camps ended up in Siberian Gulags. Many Russian POW's liberated by allies, commited suicide when they learned they would be focibly repatriated to the glorious Soviet Union. You couldn't make this stuff up.

    Over 200,000 liberated Russian POWs were sent to Siberian gulags. The Gulags are said to have killed 1.5 million people.

    Hitler is said to have presided over 12 million concentration camp deaths and 30 million due to the war. Stalin is probably responsible for 30-40million deaths, so perhaps the BBC didn't want to open that can of worms.


    Did they mention the forgotten hollocaust?

    "The saga of the Russian prisoners of war may be the forgotten holocaust of World War II. It was probably the most concentrated killing in human history. The German army killed nearly 3 million Russian prisoners of war in only eight months. From June 1941 through February 1942, the German Army was responsible for the deaths of millions of Russian prisoners through starvation, exposure and summary execution."

    https://guardianlv.com/2014/03/russian-prisoners-of-war-forgotten-holocaust-of-world-war-ii/



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    #195
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,245 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568583#Comment_118568583

    The Soviets killed though incompetence. The Nazis killed efficiently. Not much difference in the result.

    The Nazino incident was pretty bleak: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazino_tragedy



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    #196
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569314#Comment_118569314

    "Incompetence" !!!? As in by accident !? Jesus...



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    #197
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,245 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569318#Comment_118569318

    Look into it. It was frequently bad planning and just following orders. Even Soviet high command were surprised by the above incident. Same thing with the Ukrainian famine. Turns out you need farmers to plant and harvest food, who knew?



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    #198
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569337#Comment_118569337

    I have looked into it and to say the millions of deaths under the Soviet Union was just an " oopsie ' is the most brain rotting take I've heard in a long long time.

    The establishment and operation of the many gulags, prisons and work camps, the mass collectivisation and transport of all produce/ resources from the countrysides to the urban centres leaving rural people to starve. The operations of the NKVD in arresting, torturing and forcing innocent people to admit to crimes they didn't commit and to name others as co-conspirators then executing many of them and many just disappearing into the system never to be seen again. See The Gulag Archipelago.

    And thats just the basic most commonly known stuff.

    All an accident .. God help us.



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    #199
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,245 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569426#Comment_118569426

    It doesn’t excuse it. Sending someone to Siberia was most likely a death sentence. The people that were riled up to kill the farmers were Ukrainians from the city. They helped create their own famine. Was the intention to create a famine or the result an unintended result shrugged off with callous disregard?



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    #200
    Cyclingtourist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568807#Comment_118568807

    "Soviet Army who freed those in Auschwitz, Treblinka, Birkenau, Chelmno, Belsen, Majdanek, Buchenwald, Sobibor,...not a word"

    Probably because the Americans liberated Buchenwald and Belsen was liberated by the British. Treblinka, Chelmno and Sobibor were destroyed by the Germans so weren't 'liberated'. The only camps in your list liberated by the Red Army were Auschwitz-Birkenau and Majdanek.

    Edit: I believe Buchenwald eventually ended up in the Soviet zone and became a NKVD camp.....but not a word about that either.

    Post edited by Cyclingtourist on


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    #201
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560848#Comment_118560848

    It's funny, but even without the Nazis kill count, it was Socialism that caused the most amount of genocides in the 20th century.

    No memorials in the west for them though

    Speaking of which, you know you else hunted down Socialists and murdered them or put them in camps? Lenin and Stalin. In fact, putting rival Socialists and anyone else who gets in the way, into camps is one of the hall marks of Socialist regimes. So, rather than being proof that the Nazis weren't Socialists, it's evidence to the contrary

    I do like how people get agitated about the claim that the Nazis were Socialists, almost like they're worried that people might actually look at the Nazis manifestos and actions in government and realise that Marx would have been purring in approval about most of them. 😂

    Two cheeks of the same totalitarian arse, with the same result, millions dead.



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    #202
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569314#Comment_118569314

    Annnd more holocaust denial.



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    #203
    Cyclingtourist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569776#Comment_118569776

    "I do like how people get agitated about the claim that the Nazis were Socialists, almost like they're worried that people might actually look at the Nazis manifestos and actions in government and realise that Marx would have been purring in approval about most of them."

    Hardly likely as Marx was a German Jew (by Nazi classification) and virtually all Nazi policy was predicated on hatred of Jews and promoting the interests of the German Aryan master-race.



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    #204
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,245 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569781#Comment_118569781

    That’s not denial. Not sure how you are reading that.



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    #205
    MontgomeryClift
    Registered Users Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭MontgomeryClift


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569819#Comment_118569819

    That's not true at all. The major concern of the fascists in 1933 was to rebuild Germany from the dire state it was in. Jew-Gentile tensions weren't much more strained than they had always been. Those tensions really only increased when belligerent Jewish organisations outside of Germany began making false claims of genocide and calling for a boycott of German goods, while Jewish organisations in Germany were understandably trying to keep some kind of peace.



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    #206
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569776#Comment_118569776

    No matter how hard you try, you'll never make the Nazi's left wingers. 😉

    As for Marx, you haven't the first clue about him either.



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    #207
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569819#Comment_118569819

    Allow me to bold the bit you ignored there " Marx would have been purring in approval about most of them."

    Most of the Nazis economic policies were about massive government spending on capital and welfare projects and the economy serving the state. If that sounds a bit marxy it's because the man they put in charge of the economic policy was.....an anticapitalist.



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    #208
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570030#Comment_118570030

    The more you yap, the more you show how little you know of the subject.



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    #209
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I'm reading your zero content, one sentence posts in a high pitched, panicky tone 😂



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    #210
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570057#Comment_118570057

    The only "high pitched, paincky tones" are coming from you. 😉

    So, so, desperate. 😆



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    #211
    Cyclingtourist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569963#Comment_118569963

    Classic Holocaust denial, it was all Jewish propoganda. LOL.

    The Nazis in early 1933 began by dismissing Jewish civil servants and progressively (regressively) dismissing educators and bringing in further restrictions till they removed their citizenship. Eventually from September 1941 Jews in Germany were required to wear a yellow star of David and were ordered to 'report for relocation' , a convenient euphemism for extermination.

    The Jews in eastern Europe, being less visable to the German population, weren't treated quite so gently of course.

    But what the heck, you reckon it's all the fault of Jews and probably exaggerated anyway.



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