What does the Secretary General of the health department do all day, anyway?

Shelga · 26-01-2022 6:38pm #1

I genuinely have no idea. Anyone?

Robert Watt gets paid €294,920 for his services in this role anyway. So I'd like to apply! :D

What's the difference between his role and Paul Reid? Whose salary is even more eye-watering, at €420k.

Seriously, how does one get into these roles?!

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2022 6:46pm

Loads of information for you here;

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/2-uncategorised/251-secretary-general#:~:text=The%20Secretary%20General%20is%20responsible,accountable%20before%20Oireachtas%20Committees%20as

and here's the job spec.

I'm fairly sure Paul Reid's role was publicly advertised at the time. Why didn't you apply?

I'd guess that understanding the difference between the role of the Department and the role of the HSE would probably be a prerequisite to taking up a leadership post on either side. So that rules your good self out.

JP Liz V1 · 26-01-2022 6:46pm

The top civil servant in the Department of Health has confirmed he has taken an €81,000 pay increase.

Robert Watt had come under pressure in recent days to clarify whether he is now taking the pay hike which was controversially awarded to him when he was appointed secretary-general in the Department of Health last year.

The pay bump brought his salary to €292,000, however, Mr Watt had temporarily waived the increase.

The Irish Examiner this week revealed that Mr Watt received a further rise of nearly €3,000 last October, meaning his salary now stands at €294,920.

The Examiner

It is astonishing pay not sure what he does

Brucie Bonus · 26-01-2022 7:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536799#Comment_118536799

Paul Reid had zero HSE experience going in.

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2022 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536873#Comment_118536873

Correct. But he had strong public sector experience, and you can bet he knew the difference between the role of the Department and the role of the agency.

In broad terms, the Department sets health policy. The HSE provides health services in line with that policy.

gifted · 26-01-2022 7:09pm

His salary is what it is...its the pay increase that is involved....awful amount for a pay increase.

Spanish Eyes · 26-01-2022 7:13pm

What does the Minister do? Tell Watt the policies the Minister/Gov want, then Watt drafts legislation, the Dail debates it and passes it, and the HSE implements it?

Sounds doable alright. But we all know the Yes Ministers run the country don't they?

Dempo1 · 26-01-2022 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536873#Comment_118536873

And still hasn't by all accounts, absolute spoofer

Andrea B. · 26-01-2022 8:06pm

What does he do all day?

Count.

1 minute =€3.15

2 minute = another €3.15

Mrs OBumble · 26-01-2022 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536913#Comment_118536913

The increase would probably pay for 1 FTE nurse, once training and materials ate considered. Its trivial compared to the health budget. And 50% will be paid back in tax.

Andrea B. · 26-01-2022 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537220#Comment_118537220

It is not about triviality wrt to the health budget.

It, like the salaries (and allowances) of many heads in the public funds trough, is an insult to the rest of us.

Madeoface · 26-01-2022 8:35pm

420k for Paul Reid? Really? To read out stats and repeat what NPHET said for months? To flunk the contact tracing system and produce 'guidance' on the hse website that is beyond belief and contradictory.

Myself, my kids primary school office and a neighbour all rang the hse helpline on a query to do with primary school kids, positive cases in a home and isolating, and we got 3 different answers. Same old hse.

I went to a 'leadership' conference Reid was speaking at years ago. He was highlighting his private sector (telecom eireann monopoly) experience and how he'd change the public sector. Must have been ten years ago....I'd love to hear what he actually delivered in changes cos the health system is as bad as ever. Total Jack Pallancer from what I can see.

boardise · 26-01-2022 11:59pm

430K ..works out at about 20,000 per apology for service foul-ups and executive delinquencies every year.

27-01-2022 12:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538145#Comment_118538145

The salaries are managed by Finance/Public Expenditure, not Health and not the HSE. Managing staff salaries and balancing staff costs and budgets to staff demands is a huge part of any organization these don't have to deal with. Since such a huge tasks is not their responsibility, why are they getting paid so much?

27-01-2022 12:14am

The reality is that the State needs to provide salaries like these to exemplary public servants so they won't move over to the likes of McKinsey, Boston Consulting, or even the likes of EY, Deloitte, Accenture (at a stretch). Then the very same consulting firms will pitch their services to the civil service at multiples of that.

There's a very simplistic narrative going around about the pay of public servants, politicians, and RTÉ presenters that seems to appeal to the outrage community. This is dangerous territory.

StupidLikeAFox · 27-01-2022 12:25am

The question you should be asking is what metrics is he scored on because he absolutely has targets and objectives. If you know what they are, whether they are appropriate and whether he is achieving/exceeding them you might be on to something.

27-01-2022 12:29am

We give insanely unjustifiable high salaries in this country compared to our foreign counterparts in similar roles. I understand that the cost of living here can be higher but it does be way out of proportion.

Always amazes me and reeks of friends sorting friends out really.

27-01-2022 12:34am

where does this rank amongst the remuneration packages in the country?

is it in the top 100 would we say, when stocks and bonuses and cars and perks are taken into account?

the head of any govt department will have a significant profile of achievement to be in the running at all for what is a demanding public role.

those that could do it for that money are often doing a lot more damaging things for the country for a lot more money

those that think they could do it for any money but who can't even list the basic responsibilities of the job- but are all too happy to show their arses and their ignorance on a public sector thread yet again- well I think anyone can draw their own conclusions there

whether watt is worth the job or the money is of course a matter of opinion- whether the head of a government department should be in the 220k range (the bonus flung on to health is a funny one, no doubt) shouldn't be.

whether an individual took up his salary package as set out in the terms of his employment shouldn't imo be a headline and it's pretty dodgy stuff for ministers to be making a headline of it.

every minister should be as quick to give us a run down of their assets and wealth and all their incomes besides before they make comment on the salaries of public servants

Shelga · 27-01-2022 9:57am

I was genuinely bemused when I posted originally- I really don’t know what this job role is, that’s all! Anyway someone has provided a job description, so thank you :D

I know that salary packages have to be attractive to get the best people at the top, but I think another poster hit the nail on the head when he/she stated that it’s more that we have no idea what the targets are, or how their performance is evaluated, to justify these salaries. People certainly do not feel like they are getting value for money with our health service, and rightly or wrongly, these headlines are a sign of that.

HerrKuehn · 27-01-2022 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538235#Comment_118538235

I suppose the issue comes from the fact that the head of NHS earns about half what Paul Reid does. That is a much larger organisation in a country with much higher paid executives in private industry.

Do we have any indication that consulting firms are head hunting the CEOs of county councils at that sort of salary range? I would be very surprised if that was the case. I think we would all like to know how we got to the point where the answer to the issues in the HSE, with a spend of 20bn a year, is the CEO of Fingal county council? Maybe the salary is reasonable for the right person, but it seems we always hire people who are on the upper PS/state board/quango merry go round, the Angela Kerrin's of the Irish Labor market. Maybe part of the hiring process is making sure the person "knows how things work in the PS" or "knows not to upset the apple cart"?

We have been doing it this way for a long time and the state fails miserably at anything that involves providing a service in a reasonable time frame to end users. When you finally get an appointment in a hospital, you often end up arriving at a "clinic", take a ticket and you realise that 50 other people also had a 9:30 am appointment. Do you ever go to a private dentist at 9:30 and find that 50 people are there already waiting with their tickets? No, of course not, because you wouldn't accept that if you were paying for it directly.

Shelga · 27-01-2022 11:15am

Also, the CEO of NHS England earns £195k and has actually worked in the NHS throughout his career, unlike Paul Reid. The NHS also employs approximately 13x more people than the HSE. I just cannot see how a salary of €420k can be considered commensurate with what he has delivered in the last 2 years.

AndrewJRenko · 27-01-2022 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538203#Comment_118538203

The SG is the Accounting Officer for the Dept, so he is responsible to the Oireachtas for every cent spent. Yes, DPER sets overall salary policy, but Dept Health would lead on major sectoral issues, like the GP contract and the consultant contract. They would have substantial input into overall salary policy and negotiations for nurses’ salaries and more.

Again, I’ve no idea why you’re comparing against such different roles in the private sector. The Dept is responsible for the largest employer in the country and hundreds of thousands of indirectly employed staff. They are the lead on Covid response (CMO, NPHET, NIAC), on healthcare, social care, disability services, rehab services and lots, lots more. It really doesn’t compare well to making widgets or selling phones.

Having said that, the salary increase just for Watt is indefensible. Everyone in Health should be banging on the door for a corresponding increase.

27-01-2022 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539058#Comment_118539058

I think this is all reasonable for the record

27-01-2022 2:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536934#Comment_118536934

I have no idea what Watt does to earn almost 300,000 euros but I suppose he compared himself to Paul Reid.

He doesnt draft legislation though, the staff of the Attorney Generals Office do that.

I dont know who Paul Reid was benchmarked against as he earns far more than the head of the NHS,surely this is wrong.

Dyr · 27-01-2022 5:31pm

Lads, they're worth exactly what we pay them. The Irish taxpayer is so complacent that he doesnt really care if he's being fleeced. The press sure arent going to shine a light into this because they're doing nicely too.

You get the civil service that you deserve.

timmyntc · 27-01-2022 5:36pm

Watt previously worked in Department of Public Expenditure.

Before moving to his current role in Department of Health, he approved a salary increase for the role in Department of Health, which he would later move to. He effectively set his own salary, then jumped to that new job. Snouts in the trough doesnt even begin to describe it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40736856.html

Mr Watt’s salary is especially controversial as, in his previous role as secretary general of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, he was central to the design of the new pay package.

Packrat · 27-01-2022 10:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540236#Comment_118540236

So your solution to clearly excessive salaries in the public "service" is more excessive salaries in the public service?

What do You do yourself for a living may I ask?

Public "service" a possibility?

Don't piss on my head and try to tell me it's raining...

Firblog · 27-01-2022 11:06pm

What really sticks in my craw with the remuneration the upper levels of the public service receive is the pensions; they should be limited to the average wage of people in the private sector, if you don't think that's enough to live on in retirement then either contribute to a private pension yourself or come up with ways to improve the average wage of private workers.

27-01-2022 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539058#Comment_118539058

bloody save draft function put in the wrong quote and now it won't delete, ffs

StevenToast · 27-01-2022 11:27pm

Do people in this thread realise Ryan Tubridy is on 500k...

Thats where your anger should be....

timmyntc · 28-01-2022 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543080#Comment_118543080

He's on 500k as a contractor and "entertainer"

I dont think he's worth it, but its far less of an insult to the taxpayer than a public servant getting 300k per annum, an 80k increase from previously - and not only that, but it was him in his previous role at Dept of Expenditure that set the 80k pay increase for his now current job!

StevenToast · 28-01-2022 1:41pm

Tubridy is paid out of the public pocket......

And is far worse than any civil servant

Montage of Feck · 28-01-2022 1:54pm

There is a great documentary series on the matter called "Yes, Minister".

AndrewJRenko · 28-01-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542864#Comment_118542864

I didn't offer a solution to anything.

If you were one of Watt's direct reports, and you had just seen your boss get a 40% increase because the role in health is apparently so complex and stressful, you'd be a fool not to pushing for the corresponding 40% increase for yourself. You haven't a snowball's chance in hell of getting it, but it will actually make it less likely that abuses like this are agreed in the future.

Packrat · 28-01-2022 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545273#Comment_118545273

The crazy thing is that in the insider banana republic you'd probably get a good portion of it rather than stopping the gravy train for the managers and politicians.

It's in nobody's interest bar the private sector tax donkeys to stop the abuses, and we clearly don't matter.

AndrewJRenko · 28-01-2022 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545993#Comment_118545993

Have the others in Dept Health got corresponding increases?

blanch152 · 28-01-2022 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536873#Comment_118536873

I actually think that is a huge advantage.

The Health Service has been run by insiders for far too long. It is time that proven public service managers from outside the HSE got in and attempted to sort it out. For too long, the interests of staff insiders like nurses and doctors have been put before the interests of patients. With someone like Paul Reid, there is a chance that that will change. The real risk is inertia and resistance to change from within the HSE, particularly from those around him. A second risk is that the likes of the INMO will keep whinging and keep being listened to by opportunistic politicians. It doesn't help that there are many politicians around - Louise O'Reilly being a prime example - whose default is protect the staff. The staff of the HSE are second only to teachers in having their interests represented in the Dail.

Brucie Bonus · 28-01-2022 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546865#Comment_118546865

Context. Literally mentioned he'd no prior health experience. Never claimed it was good or bad.

So nurses have been stacking the HSE deck to keep themselves in the clover they have become accustomed to? Do you know anything about how tough nurses have it?

Hopefully Paul Reid looks to making people accountable for the Kerry CAHMs scandal that went in for years despite it being complained about. Throwing money hits the tax payer and let's those responsible off the hook.

iffandonlyif · 28-01-2022 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538235#Comment_118538235

Well said. Just to put numbers on it, salaries for partners at the top consultancy firms in London are upwards of 500k before bonuses, which can double earnings. Civil Service salaries lag considerably behind.

The reason the top finance and consulting firms pay so much is that when the value of their contracts is so high, the smallest of improvements make a big difference. The exact same applies to the civil service. If a highly paid secretary general at a €10bn department can improve efficiency by 1%, that more than justifies their salary.

The question is whether they do improve it. I’ve little doubt that the CS is not at the cutting edge of efficiency and that those at the top benefit from a preference for internal promotion, but I still think they are likely highly competent and can command higher salaries in the private sector.

Dempo1 · 28-01-2022 7:21pm

Maddening this latest farce, the Trip to Dubai with Donnelly. The expo is primarily a Trade event what the SG and minister are doing there is beyond me. Enterprise Ireland by all means should be there.

The Salary story is just breathtaking and the Justifications for same utterly bizzare, Paschal used spurious nonsense about the importance of managing the vaccine roll out which I believe had started before Watt even arrived at the department, then he said the work involved overseeing such a large department required the high renumeration. I suspect many Frontline workers looking on are seething.

Now it seems other SG will be seeking pay parity given all SG normally on same pay scale , seems to me a can of worms has been opened up here.

The bizzare spectacle of Paul Reid , who reports to Watt, earning close to €150k more PA is just extraordinary and that doesn't include the 20k motoring expenses Reid claimed despite being chauffeured around by Army personnel in a sponsored BMW 🙄

Scandal after Scandal, Failure after Failure and yet the two top people swaning around Dubai , I'm just surprised Paul Reid not there sunning himself also.

It's disgusting and outrageous.

Brucie Bonus · 28-01-2022 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118547058#Comment_118547058

And we've people blaming nurses.

AndrewJRenko · 28-01-2022 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546865#Comment_118546865

His predecessor Tony O'Brien was also an outsider. Brendan Drumm was a medic, but was also a HSE outsider.

Garryneal · 28-01-2022 8:54pm

Delighted to see Tubbs and Co compared to Watts and Co. RTE and Dept of Health/HSE are abominations and are strangely symbiotic these days. Tubbs and Co. seem to think Cancer, sick children and any form of ill health or hard luck stories are entertainment for Licence Payers who want a bit of light relief on the telly and not something that will depress us. I totally object to being forced to pay a Licence Fee for the rubbish RTE puts out. As for Watts and Reid, the Irish Health Service is an abomination and theres no other word for it. The same day that Watts monstrous pay rise was made public, the horrors of the Kerry Childrens Mental Health Servces came to light. The latest in a never ending litany of disasters caused by highly paid clowns in management positions that they are unfit to occupy, I dont mind high salaries if theres accountability attached to them, in Irelend there never is. No heads will roll in Kerry. No heads ever roll in the HSE, despite the numbers of people they have killed. There are hospitals in this country that people are afraid to go into. They might come out in a coffin, and many have. Will Watts and Reid solve this? not a hope. The culture of embracing incompetence and rewarding it has been embedded in the HSE right back through the Health Boards and before them, the Local Health Authorities. I worked in a Health Board and after 20 years of watching skulduggery, wanton waste and jobs for the boys, I ran out the door. Clowns who were pulled into jobs and promoted because they knew someone, or had been groomed, or who dont have the intelligence to creatively problem solve, and therefore wont show up the inertia of their superiors, are all in high positions now and have never had a sensible idea in the lives. This is whats running our health service. A few witch doctors from Angola would be as good, and a lot less expensive on the tax payer. For such a small country we are a disgrace, despite all the billions spent down the years, we are as bad as ever. And Watts wont change it, and I dont think he`s even expected to. A waste of money at any salary. Just like Tubbs. And I dont even want to think about TUSLA, a mongrel offspring of the HSE, they are in a league of their own and defy description.

Mrs OBumble · 28-01-2022 9:31pm

Very harsh on Angola there.

Donald Trump · 28-01-2022 11:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537180#Comment_118537180

That's probably not too far off per-minute-worked pay for your average teacher 😋

blanch152 · 29-01-2022 2:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546953#Comment_118546953

Yeah, I do happen to know quite a bit about nurses. Outside of emergency departments and ICU, it can be quite a cushy job.

Maybe you can fill us in with your experience.

Brucie Bonus · 29-01-2022 3:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118548869#Comment_118548869

I pay attention to nurses when they raise worries about the service such as being over worked and how people have to be left on trolleys. If they have it so handy I wonder why they are always asking for improvements to the system.

Always nice to see how nurses, low paid workers and the homeless get looked down upon.

I can't take anyone who thinks nurses have it cushy seriously. Its like pretending there's no housing problem because you heard of Margaret cash.

AndrewJRenko · 29-01-2022 10:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118548436#Comment_118548436

Only if you want to fool yourself about the amount of non classroom work involved

is_that_so · 29-01-2022 10:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118548911#Comment_118548911

Nurses are vested interests in the health system, just like doctors and admin staff and there are times when they just push their own agendas. The trolley count is a perfect example of this. It is an unacceptable scenario but data that does not explain the myriad reasons why it happens. Those reasons include deficits in primary care, lack of stepdown facilities, regular visitors who need a bed and a level of families dumping older relatives in hospital.

Personally think nursing is a very noble calling but that doesn't mean that some are not as excellent as others and that they don't indulge in petty grievances that the unions will back. I generally have had excellent experience of nurses but have also heard my fair share of anecdotal stuff about them and some it is not great at all.

Brucie Bonus · 29-01-2022 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118549230#Comment_118549230

I have only heard nurses complain about being over worked and the plight of patients due to lack of beds.

The nurse to bed ratio doesn't take patients without a bed into account.

Its all very well to call nursing noble but then dismiss their complaints as petty grievances. Its the equivalent of applauding front line workers then not paying student nurses who had to assist front line.

It seems we are to believe the HSE is a mess and nurses have it cushy, while the top men head off to Dubai for an expo during a pandemic and during the latest health crisis in Kerry reported and ignored for years.

Igotadose · 29-01-2022 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546865#Comment_118546865

The HSE isn't fit for purpose, their 'self policing' function has been captured by those being policed, and in the last year alone, more senior level administrators were hired than senior consultants. Highest administrative load percentage-wise in Europe.

No health service should be run by an MBA like Reid. Just look at the recent Kerry mental health scandal. At best, one junior doctor might get some consequences, but usually it's just the taxpayer paying the poor mistreated victims. No one loses their job. No one lost their job over Savita Halappanavar ffs and she was murdered by HSE incompetence and maliciousness. The doctor who killed her is still operating in Ireland. Love how the HSE types in Galway messed with the records, too. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/10/irish-doctor-abortion-law-inquest

What does the Secretary General of the health department do all day, anyway?

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