All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

shillyshilly, I'd love nothing more than to be wrong. I have revised my opinions and changed my mind a number of times in the past couple of years. It's an evolving situation, so it's only normal that a person would think things through.

I would say I am, and have always been, in two camps. The first is the one Tony Abbott describes in the following article: Former prime minister Tony Abbott worried about health bureaucrats becoming addicted to power | Daily Mail Online. That is that life will forevermore be lived (or 'exist', if you prefer) according to how scientists and medical persons view the world, i.e. increasingly zero-risk:

"Former prime minister Tony Abbott is worried Australians may never be able to enjoy life again as the pandemic makes bureaucrats addicted to power.

He made his call just hours before both NSW and Victoria introduced a series of new Covid restrictions as Omicron case numbers soar - with one state bureaucrat even warning residents to avoid 'fun' activities. 

Speaking generally, Mr Abbott said governments could get so addicted to power that life Australia would no longer be as worthwhile.

'Any government that tries to protect everyone in all circumstance is a government which will end up wrapping people up in such cotton wool that none of us will have a real life,' he told Alan Jones: Direct To The People show on Facebook.

'We've always got to be careful about becoming addicted to a crisis.'"

We're already seeing that happening in the US: With Covid, we’ll never have a normal flu season again - Vox

"... the imperative to “flatten the curve,” to limit the spread of these viruses to stop hospitals from being overwhelmed, will be with us for a long time. But the makeup of the curve will change, measuring multiple diseases instead of one."

"Anand Parekh, chief medical adviser at the Bipartisan Policy Center, said any strategy for navigating the Covid-and-flu seasons to come should have at least four components: vaccination, testing, treatment, and masking.

But executing that plan is easier said than done. The US has struggled with some of these interventions throughout the pandemic. Deploying them annually would require a fundamental shift in how US hospitals and all of society approach the winter season. We can no longer muddle through every year and hope for the best."

Varadkar is talking about masks being a seasonal requirement. That would mean they would be required forever every winter. Is that something you would welcome and support? Would not seasonal restrictions forever make for a dystopian kind of society?

And the second camp is the Great Reset one. You may call it paranoia, but I think it's prudent to be wary of calls for wholesale changes to society, economies, and of powerful individuals calling for a permanent 'new normal'. I think you share some of those concerns (I may be confusing you with another poster who has the same avatar) with regards to corporations having a big influence on government and on government decisions, which is what Klaus Schwab is pushing for.

But, as I have said before, the one good thing about Ireland is that it is next to England. Another advantage an Irish person has is that they have English, which means they can emigrate quite easily, if they want to.

Is ay of the above unreasonable?

Looks like we'll see significant reductions in restrictions announced tomorrow...

I also would not vote classify masks in certain settings during the winter as "dystopian".

That's not true. I have no either no interest, or don't know anything about, any of the many other topics (9/11, The Georgia Guidestones etc) on this forum.

What info destroys the 'fantasy' of masks being required by law every winter in Ireland, presumably forever? What info destroys the moves to henceforth treat the flu (see that article I quoted from about the US) the way covid is treated? The problem is that I don't think you want to concede that your opponents might have a point. You have justified the huge number of politicians, governors et al who have ignored their own rules over and over again (the latest the French politician who was so afraid of covid that he popped over to Ibiza for a few days: Calls for French minister to resign after announcing Covid protocol from Ibiza | France | The Guardian), you dismiss valid concerns about the scientification of life (such as those expressed by Tony Abbott) as 'conspiracy theories' etc. I have conceded that not 'all' measures, as brianhere believes, will be permanent. But I believe masks will be, the possibility of lockdowns will be a real one forevermore, vaccine passports (in some form, another case of my thinking having evolved somewhat), and a few other ones.

Again that's not true. Many of the restrictions have been based on wildly inaccurate modelling (see the articles about the SAGE modelling). Not for valid and solid reasons.

Do you even read posts you reply to? I said that in the eyes of many scientists and doctors mask-wearing and other measures will be valid measures forevermore (see the article about the US) when it comes to flu and other illnesses. Perfectly valid when viewed through the narrow lens of 'close to zero risk', but it would mean a restricted life going forward. Forever.

At what point do you just move on? Never it seems, according to you. Forever reacting to variants that come along (and they'll come along forever because covid isn't going anywhere) and forever introducing restrictions. If the same approach had been taken to the Spanish Flu then there would have been restrictions the past 100 plus years because it didn't go away.

And I'm waiting for you to justify the French politician's popping over to Ibiza because he was afraid of covid. Oh no, sorry, he was telling everyone else to be afraid of it while he went sunbathing and partying in Ibiza. You'll probably mention something about seatbelts.

Not accurate. Far from being happy to let the measures subside, there are scientists in the US who want the measures used for covid to be used for the flu and every winter, forever: With Covid, we’ll never have a normal flu season again - Vox

"...the imperative to “flatten the curve,” to limit the spread of these viruses to stop hospitals from being overwhelmed, will be with us for a long time. But the makeup of the curve will change, measuring multiple diseases instead of one."

"Public health experts believe now and going forward the US needs a new public health strategy that treats Covid-19 and influenza as one unified threat. We can’t think that we will endure the omicron wave and then all of these problems will be behind us. This is the new reality. Responding to it adequately, along the lines some experts are calling for, would require a massive effort — nothing less than a complete rethinking of how we respond to the annual winter surge in respiratory illness."

"Anand Parekh, chief medical adviser at the Bipartisan Policy Center, said any strategy for navigating the Covid-and-flu seasons to come should have at least four components: vaccination, testing, treatment, and masking."

And I'm guessing you'd support that.

Just like other posters are arguing that a 'seasonal requirement' to wear masks 'is no big deal' and saying 'what's wrong what?'. The 'it's no big deal' means permanent restrictions can never actually be permanent. They'd just restrictions that are 'no big deal'. So if brianhere is right and we end up with masks everywhere forever (even if seasonally because don't forget that Varadkar said 'permanent rule' or a 'seasonal requirement', he didn't say 'or they'll be voluntary') and having passes and socially distancing every winter, then it will be dismissed here as 'no big deal'.

Has anyone in the 'covid restrictions are permanent' crowd responded to the imminent removal of all restrictions, including masks, in the UK?

Yeah, 'cause that's all a permanent seasonal requirement to wear masks would be. Just the odd old person wearing one in a supermarket.

Opposition.