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Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,595 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Expecting a man to be able to do so is exactly the kind of gendered expectations notAMember was complaining about.

    As an unfit middle-aged man with no combat training, if a gang of feral youths (or even one aggressive motorist as described earlier on the thread) decide to hassle me, I'm likely to be in far more trouble than a woman they wolf-whistle at: she'll get offended, intimidated and scared maybe they'd even go so far as to grope her. I'd likely end up in A&E.



  • Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yea I'm talking about male aggression towards women. I mean that is exactly my point. What.am I supposed to say "human with a penis".



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, I addressed that part.

    The most likely scenario was that the guy was upset about the other drivers behaviour on the road. It wouldn't matter if it was a man or a woman.

    Men and women get into road rage incidents every day. And from my own experiences, the type of people who suffer from road rage are equally likely to engage with a man or a woman.

    I've asked if someone was called a stupid **** man, would that be sexist?



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Since I saw someone liked my original post it was clear that the sarcasm wasn't strong enough.

    You hung out with someone you think is a piece of **** in just about every way and then ranted and criticised him on a forum. It sounds, well, it sounds made up because I don't know why you'd associate with someone who drinks their own piss.

    Also, as a fat ****, I don't go asking for help in clothes shops because if the biggest size doesn't fit me there's not much more to ask. If only I had a good samaritan like yourself to help me out then go railing against my on the interwebz to do some virtue signalling.



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  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Perfect example earlier of trying to talk about this (rather than just nod along no matter what) was my mam saying "You don't know what it's like to be a woman.". Yeah, and the sky is blue. She has no idea what it's like to be a man yet is sure it's always worse to be a woman.



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I simply disagree that giving a woman a compliment should even be discussed as being made illegal.

    As a married man, it's not something I need to worry about, but **** hell, the push from some to police language to such a degree where you need permission to COMPLIMENT someone is frightening.

    There is also a good chance that a random compliment could actually make someone's day. But sure **** those guys.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,753 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    We need tougher justice sentences for all violent crimes no matter age or sex

    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,146 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    By all means compliment someone you know.

    A stranger, maybe not.

    You might think "great tits" is a compliment and the receiver might not. (I'm not suggesting that's what you would say by they way)

    For example whistling: Walshb said he'd be chuffed to be whistled at and another lad said he would assume women would take it as a compliment, but anyone I know would deem it harassment and unwelcome), so someone's compliment is someone elses insult.

    So as the lad said, maybe just say nothing and respect eveyone's boundaries.



  • Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The point is its not OK. Its not OK to abuse a woman when you're angry. Its not OK to abuse anyone, I get that. But specifically a woman. It's similar to racism where a person can be made to feel vulnerable and unsafe due to their race.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,595 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Well let's try and dispell some of your cynicism around the men of boards.ie: I 100% agree with you on making all schools co-ed and agree that our justice system is in need of serious overhauling.

    And for nuance, I'd agree that sentences for violent crimes should be longer but would add to that view that our prison system also needs far more focus on reducing recidivism (and investment to that end). There's also the issue of sexism in the disparity between convictions and sentencing of men and women but that view might lead us to another argument so I'll stop while I'm ahead!

    My other half used a term I hadn't heard before earlier "grief-standing" and it seems a very apt description of a lot of the behaviour we're seeing on social media around this tragedy. I've seen tweets accusing others of posing for selfies with full lighting setups at the vigils and pretty outlandish claims from people "not being able to sleep for crying" over the case when they had no idea who Aisling Murphy was this time last week. It should be easy to dismiss such attention seeking behaviours but instead the media seems more focused on these individuals and the anti-male views that so many of them are expounding than on having a national conversation about how we can improve public safety or reduce our society's (already fairly low tbh) creation of violent individuals. Of course, one murdered innocent is one lost life too many but there's a need to be realistic about what's actually achievable and I'm sorry to say it but I don't think there's any way of ensuring that everyone feels safe everywhere at any time of the day or night. We can certainly try to make sure that such fears are largely irrational but we can't create utopia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber


    I may be abused for saying this but the vigils & out pourings of grief & outrage for this girl are down right disrespectful to the 240 murdered women in the last 10 years who didnt get this much attention its an insult to their families and also its not making the situation any easier for her family.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    anewme, I inadvertently replied to you here: anyway, impossible on this new site to delete..

    Exactly. Not everyone thinks the worst. There is context, situations, circumstances, people’s views and opinions..

    Simple: nobody is condoning threatening or intimidating behaviours.

    aren’t there already laws to deal with harassment?

    are we suggesting we need tweaking g these laws?

    where say, for example: woman walking down street dressed nice and looking nice, and man whistles in her direction in noticing this or acknowledging this or complimenting this. Woman then goes to cops to report it?



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is where we differ.

    The soft bigotry of low expectations.

    I think it's equally egregious to abuse a man or a woman.

    Not sure what you mean about racism. Abusing anyone because of their race is abhorrent, doesn't matter what race it is (that includes white people).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,978 ✭✭✭buried


    I'll happily apply for any sort of social license the exact same f**king minute I no longer have to pay or apply for the TV license. I ain't applying or paying for both, the likes of McClonkey can either have it one way or the other.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Motivator


    You’ve yet to tell us what your wife did to draw the reaction from this fellow. She was most probably in the wrong and while I don’t agree with what happened in terms of the fellow abusing her. If she was in the wrong, which women usually are on the road, then she accept the consequences.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 21,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    It's a shame that Ashling's violent death is being used to push an agenda. This should not be her legacy, she should be remembered for the person she was, not her death. Her family should have time to deal with the shock, horror and grief, not have their loved one discussed relentlessly in the media.

    I want to say though, I'm a woman and I'm not afraid. I go about my daily life without fear, even in a cafe (imagine!). I accept I could be unlucky but none of us should live in fear of a statistically unlikely event.

    There was a time, a very recent one at that, where women were second class citizens, became basically the property of their husband if married and shamed as a spinster if they weren't. Marital rape wasn't recognised, we didn't have equal opportunities in education and employment etc. The original feminist movement backlashed against that and allowed us to be independent and equal.

    Now, however, the aim seems to be to subjugate men and educate boys that they need to suppress their, apparently, inherent violence, to equate boorish behaviour to menace and demand they all become knights in shining armour, swooping in to defend the honour of any woman.

    When we learn more about the murderer it's highly unlikely that we'll hear he was a well-adjusted individual, bar a penchant for wolf whistling and telling women to smile, prior to the day he took Ashling's life.

    Demand change? Yes, but demand it where it's needed - early childhood intervention, effective mental health services, policing and sentencing. Let's not tar all our fathers, brothers etc. with the same brush. The majority of men and women are decent people, it would be a shame to compare all of us to the notable exceptions.

    Post edited by Leg End Reject on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You’re in for a serious backlash here!!!😅



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,146 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Totally agree with context, situations etc but making that judgement call is a very fine line unless you know the person really well.

    Are there set laws for street harassment, whistling, commenting etc already in place?

    I think your final paragraph that if a women is walking down the street looking well and a man whistles at her, he's out of order. 100%. He knows she's not able to physically fight back, but still pushes ahead with a behaviour that more than likely would not be welcome. While calling the cops might be a waste of valuable resources, how else do you propose could be done to ensure he desists from doing that? Or do you think its ok for him to do that because he meant no malice.



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  • Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    @bwalsh

    where say, for example: woman walking down street dressed nice and looking nice, and man whistles in her direction in noticing this or acknowledging this or complimenting this. Woman then goes to cops to report it?

    Why can't he just admire her, without whistling at her? Is it really so hard for him to restrain himself, that he HAS to whistle at a passing stranger?

    You've been told over and over, that the vast majority of women don't like or appreciate this kind of attention from men, and it makes some women very anxious.

    All this has already been pointed out to you, but you continue to defend this type of behaviour. You're not listening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    he knows she’s physically not able to fight back? He’s hardly thinking this with what he has done.

    I think you’re painting this too negatively and with sinister tones that aren’t there.

    I would absolutely not be for having gardai investigate random innocuous/innocent comments (albeit childish/immature) here.

    I think we have laws in place as it is without needing this tweaking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,146 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    And (unless he's messing, which I thought he was ) quite rightly so.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    So you think it should be a crime?

    Not defending it. Just do not agree it should be a crime.



  • Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    @Motivator

    If she was in the wrong, which women usually are on the road, then she accept the consequences.

    WOW.



  • Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thanks for the insight. As you point out, I'm assuming through your own experience, this was a male asserting his dominance and justifying it based on his superior gender. No shadow of a doubt a bully like this would never ever attempt this against a male driver.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭daithi7


    But this is just more of this bs, pejorative, prejudice Dark Crystal:

    "will always be a certain cautiousness around CERTAIN male behaviours. This has come from years of experiences - some low-level harrassment, some much more serious behaviour - that has shaped OUR lives as women...."


    It's not male behaviours, it is the behaviour of some (minority of) men.


    Get it right. Stop using this tragic murder as a soapbox for pejorative, prejudiced comment , the thin edge of blatant misandry, PLEASE!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 467 ✭✭nj27


    The sarcasm was dreadful, absolutely awful attempt at sarcasm. It failed utterly and completely, and sorry for your loss etc. Good god, what a terrible effort. Anyway, I'll shred you down and get you dressed, get you hoppin. Lose those V plates. If you need coaching in life I'll help you out. God, what a state to be in! No matter, I'll help you out! I'm a saint!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,146 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Do you think an on the spot fine, hitting him in the pocket, might be the way forward for these type of offences?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Not really..

    what would be burden of proof? So much to consider..

    but look: if my son did it to a female, I’d tell him not to do it.

    but I wouldn’t be for criminalising it either.



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