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Anyone thinking of emigrating?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Yeah, this is a biggie. I remember one of first jobs after leaving Ireland was for a company in Frankfurt that had a very strong Betriebsrat with strong rules in place. The company had a very secure building, and your access card also registered your hours. If you were doing too much overtime and got over a certain number of hours (can't remember the number, but not hard to hit) you were automatically denied access to the building.

    My current company doesn't clock hours, but if it is seen that someone is having to work extra hours to get something done, this reflects badly on management. In all my time working there I've never worked more than my contracted hours. It makes for a great work-life balance when you know you can always leave the office at a specific time and focus on other things in life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Personally I'm very disillusioned with Ireland and the direction in which it's heading. Im Our lack of good leaders and politicians is astounding. I also hate our climate but at 44 years of age and mortgaged, I'm stuck here. Whilst not strictly emigrating, I'd love nothing better than to move to the Algarve when I retire. Unfortunately property prices there are as bad as here so that's probably a dream that should die pretty soon as the reality of our pensions kick in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭FAILSAFE 00


    You know we actually need landlords...

    The more of them you have the more the rents come down. Less landlords, less accommodation to rent, the rents go higher due to fewer places out there to rent.

    Tonnes of people are sitting on cash who could become a landlord but who would want to do that in 2021. They are painted as the villains'. Apparently the best time ever to be a landlord yet they are leaving the market in droves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Pixel Eater


    God I hate these real self-loathing threads. The original poster's disparaging remakes about Ireland are totally over-the-top; there's nothing to do in Ireland except the pub?! What nonsense.

    Ireland definitely has it's issue but it's generally a very good place to live. The thing is our problems won't be solved but lots of our citizens leaving the country; that's the reason how socially conservative Catholicism remained so strong for so long. People need to fight and demand change.

    It's like how the average Irish soccer supporter spends all their money and time on the English league while downright mocking their own domestic league, then somehow expecting a brilliant international squad.



  • Posts: 3,842 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Very backward societies at the other end of the world. Worth a visit maybe, especially NZ for the scenery, but there's nothing in Oz, just a few cities of largely generic aspect. The Sydney Opera house being the only thing distinctive. What if you want to leave the cities for the "countryside" - burnt rock. Not a castle in sight.

    It appeals maybe to the more proletarian amongst us.



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  • Posts: 3,842 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why didn't you leave prior to this. Ireland is full of people who seem to regret staying on the Island, and a lot of people who came back to Ireland are aware that the grass is never greener.

    By the way I have lived abroad, and intend to again, maybe for all or most of my retirement abroad, but Ireland is not as bad as described here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,979 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I suspect that dig is intended to bait. It's certainly an amusing attempt. I'd love to see a photo of your non proletarian castle. Does it cost much to heat?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Germany

    (Well, don't know about the motoring costs - don't drive - not an issue for me)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    But the income tax rates are significantly higher than Ireland at all levels and for the low end twice what it is in Ireland - https://publicpolicy.ie/papers/comparing-irish-income-taxation-rates-with-other-eu-member-states/

    And how comfortable would you be living in a Germanic culture? Are you a person that likes to be organized? Would you be comfortable liking in a society that expects you to be organized?



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    The problem with the retirement dream is that it is usually only half backed. The dream only covers the early years when you are still active and the coffers are full. But move on to your 80s when you are not so healthy, you need healthcare services, home help, possibly move to residential care etc. The quality of the healthcare is one thing, the social aspect is another - most of it will be provided in the national languages and the patients and residents will mainly be nationals. Will you be comfortable to deal with all your sicknesses, social contact etc in a foreign language?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    In real terms, my net income goes further than it ever did in Ireland.

    I've been living in Berlin for eight years, but that doesn't really answer your question because 1 - Berlin doesn't subscribe to your ill-formed stereotype, and 2 - I was expected to be organised in Ireland, so...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Squeeonline


    I left Ireland in my mid-20s and haven't looked back. I wouldn't take a job in Ireland for less than 150k/year to make up for the cost of living and to have the same quality of life I have on the continent. I love visiting Ireland when I can, but it's not somewhere I'd want to live and work permanently ever again.


    The grass is actually greener.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 professor longhair


    I have been living in the Netherlands (Amsterdam) for over three years now, previously also lived in Australia for a short period.

    Wanted to share my experience and correct some of the mistruths being bandied about.

    Relatively speaking taxes and cost of living are not cheap here, I would say the tax system is pretty similar to Ireland but the difference is what you get for your tax here. Amazing infrastructure and public transport which makes getting around so easy that I have no need for a car. This in itself presents a massive financial saving for me when I think of how much it cost to tax, insure, fuel, and maintain a car in Ireland.

    NL is a small country (bout the size of Munster) with a high population density as such property can be expensive. However even in the fancy parts of Amsterdam it is still cheaper than Dublin!. I haven't bought yet so have been renting and this is a completely different experience than back home. In the last 4 years I lived in Ireland, I had to move 4 times because of various landlord excuses. In the final 6 months I couldn't even find a property that would take us because we had a dog! Bottom line renting in Ireland offers no security. Here it is the opposite, I pay a decent amount for my apartment but it has great (brand new fixtures and fittings) and once you live in a property over 12 months you have TOTAL security no exceptions,. I can do whatever I want to the property once it can be put back to its original state before I leave. MY rent can only go up about 0.5% each year and that is it. Bottom line I feel like this is my home, not like I am some serf waiting to be put out on the street at anytime.

    But ultimately the biggest improvement for me is quality of life, Nobody here thinks commuting 10 hours a week is a sane way to live, most parents work 4 days a week, working overtime or extra hours to do your work is seen as wrong and not encouraged so work life balance is better. There are amazing parks and public spaces everywhere and unlike Ireland they are used everyday because they are not overrun by feral teenagers. On a nice day you can go have a BBQ and beers in the park without an ounce of trouble or intimidation. This is a big thing in my book, it is so safe here that despite the weather you spend a lot more time enjoying what the city has to offer.

    OK some cons, Weather is just as bad as Ireland, It can be hard to make friends as an expat.

    I miss the people and nature in Ireland but NL just shows me how good it can be to live in a city that is run for its people, not developers, hotels, cars, freal scrotes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Maybe it's just nostalgia, maybe it's because I had no aims or desires to own a house etc at that time but does anyone prefer that time around 2014 and 2015?

    Things just seemed less intense. We were still kind of coming out of the recession but I didn't see or feel that same intense sense of greed or pressure around nowadays. Everyone is desperate to squeeze out as much money as possible. Everyone's desperate to buy a house at all costs or buy a nice car.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Things were still pretty **** then, many graduates could tell you the same. But yeah, I dunno, the expense of everything has just gone through the roof. People need to get paid and everyone's trying to look after themselves but even the other day I had to call someone out for a small job. Luckily for me I just had to keep the cost from the rent but the landlord wasn't too happy at first. He lives over the border and yeah, literally cost double what it would 10 miles up the road. I'm sure once he thinks about it the extra 60 quid isn't that big a deal and saved him having to do anything or follow up or whatever but when the same service costs twice as much on one side of the border it does feel like a bit of a rip-off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    I was a graduate around that time earning just over 22k in Dublin. 390 in rent a month for a double room in an apartment in south Dublin. Rental crisis existed then but wasn't like it is now either.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ah yeah the rent was lovely back then but just finding anything work-wise was a disaster in a lot of places. We had 17 graduate, I think at this stage 4 have ended up in the field we studied, as many ended up doing teaching (only 1 had intended to) and a few went unrelated civil service and a few went elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Swaine


    Example of why I detest this country. Had a bad ear infection recently. €60 to visit doctor only for her to tell me to go get ear drops. Didn't work. Back again, told nurse will clean out my ears. Another €60 for that. €30 for the nurse to clean them. €150 later problem still there. Go to A&E, sit there for 6 hours only to be told to come back in the morning to see ENT. €100 for that. See ENT next morning, sorts the problem for €80. Antibiotics another €15 plus €8 for drops.

    I pay €130 per week in tax and that's the level of service our health service provides. €350 to sort an ear infection whereas the wasters who pay no tax with medical cards get all this for free.

    The less you contribute the more you get. That is fcuked up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 736 ✭✭✭al87987


    I recently married a Mexican woman and spent 15 months there during Covid after our wedding was postponed a couple of times. I like the culture, food, weather and going out to eat a lot which is just not feasible here. The language barrier and lack of mates/family is concerning but will hopefully lessen over time and I think being away is a lot easier now with technology than even 20 years ago. 

    I have always been a good saver but every year for the last 7 or so years I have ended up further away from securing a home due to price increases in Dublin. I took my money saved for a deposit and built 3 2-bedroom apartments in Mexico city during Covid when I was stuck there. I was amazed how far the money went over there compared to here. 

    I am approaching my mid-30's and want to have a family soon but can't imagine how that would be possible here with the cost of living and housing. I'm an accountant and my wife works in cybersecurity so we have good job prospects but where's the quality of life. 

    Mexico has well reported safety concerns but that's mostly confined to the border states which we avoid, Mexico city is like most North American cities I've been to and the sheer number of places to visit for relatively cheap from that location is great.

    Ireland currently is No Country for Young People.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,979 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The active ingredient in Beconase (hayfever nasal spray) costs 500% more in Ireland than the UK. It's sold over the counter as Beconase, but if you want to buy a generic form of beclomethasone, you need a prescription. Why - just why?

    So that's €50-60 to get a prescription so you can buy it for €4.50 instead of €13, if it weren't for the Pharmacist charging an €7.80 dispensing fee. €13 vs €62.30 - such a tough choice ... let me think a minute...

    Can you purchase over the counter pharmaceuticals from other members of the European 'common' (sic) market or from outsie it; like the UK? Nope, not even aspirin.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hence why despite having to be almost blinded by a headache before I think of taking a painkiller I have a full medicine cabinet all bought in Newry. 29p for a pack of painkillers, 49p for 14 allergy tablets etc. I was caught out once for indigestion medicine and it sickened me to pay more than I usually pay for multiple painkillers, allergy tablets, indigestion, diarhoea, constipation, etc. etc. all combined.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Swaine


    Do they give you the third degree up north up if you want to buy some Solpadeine?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    There's no such thing as "nostalgia" for just a few years ago.

    Fuck all was different. Jan 2015 was only 84 months ago.

    If you you said 1994 and 1995, you might have point.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Little bit but good bit less than here. Short of literally walking out and straight back in they're grand.

    The limit on paracetamol etc. is more annoying but if you have someone with you they'll let you just split them that way. Plus there's usually another couple of places in sight where you can get more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Yep I totally understand what you're saying and it's a thought that's crossed my mind multiple times. I specifically mentioned the Algarve as it has a good healthcare system and the bonus of a lot of English speaking doctors in the area. But as I said, it's only a dream. Unless I come into some serious money in the next 15 years, I won't be going anywhere ☹️😁.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭OEP


    So your effective tax rate is around 18% - that's low. You'd be paying a lot more tax in other European countries, but you wouldn't have to pay for the doctor etc.



  • Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I enjoyed page 1 a lot, twenty odd posts of all the things wrong with the place (agreed with most of them, btw!) and then the record-stop "brrrp" sound as the two halves of the debate all agreeing with each other realised they all fundamentally disagreed with the root causes "we're a lefty paradise!" "no we're a right wing shithole!"

    extremism starts when you idealise your own solutions, simplify real world problems to trite soundbites and think anyone disagreeing with you is a moron or evil, and alas in between all that the political parties of the day- govt and main opposition- dont even have to try in order to keep their gigs, they just have to point each side of the population at the other and let them swing themselves out.


    When people emigrated in the 80s it was tragic, when they emigrated in the 90s it was a lark, then it was tragic again and now people just talk about doing it and that's tragic too

    Things arent perfect anywhere and things were never perfect anywhere and thats not the fault of anyone, but opportunity exists here the same as it does anywhere else for anyone with the stuff to grasp it.



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  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think Ireland is particularly left wing or right wing. The politicians, like many, just try to go with whatever way the wind is blowing and that's what leads to messes that we end up with.

    Just as an example, mass immigration is a right-wing/corporatist policy. However, USA being the prime example, the GoP campaign against it publicly while the Democrats are on the other side. So when negative consequences are felt the blame falls on the side who by their apparent ideology shouldn't be to blame for it.

    Similarly in Ireland, subsidies for rent on the surface appear to be a left wing position. But it (rent) is a necessity for most who pay it so the market gets massively disrupted and wealth flows upwards even more. Removing such subsidies is a lot harder politically than bringing them in.



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