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Climate Bolloxolgy.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,132 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    It's much better than being burned off one by one over many years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,118 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    But that's not going to happen. The policy is for each landowner to do their bit. Whatever that is. There is no policy to say yer man next door has rewilded 100 acres so that means everyone doesn't have to do as much, or his neighbours need to do nothing. Even if land is rewilded it will have no bearing on the current policies



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭DBK1


    I understand that alright but I’d be thinking the more that voluntarily do that way the smaller an amount the remaining lads will be forced to do. Maybe I’ll be wrong but I’ll live in hope!



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    CAP will be used against you, eNGO's have latched onto it as the stick to beat landowners with, they won't let go any time soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭green daries


    Oh I wish you were right or even a small bit right but I'm afraid they have the bit between their teeth now they have a clear run at the dirty polluting farmers with the big profit monitors



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭green daries


    Absolutely I said 15 years ago it should be abolished totally all the subs should be got rid of .......but it won't happen and now as you say every wanker in the street thinks they have a say over private business and property " cos yere getting money for nothing"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,118 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Everyone is getting money for nothing. My local drug dealer and his useless wife and poor unfortunate pair of toddlers have a free house, etc etc and a 171 5 series in the drive way. I wonder can I go up and demand a bit of rewilding in their garden?

    What about pensioners? Or businesses in receipt of grants or "gifts" from the IDA.

    I'd be in favour of the subsidies going for all established trade (beef/dairy/sheep) and redirect them to new things to get off the ground. But will Mr and Mrs Joe Soap cough up a bit extra in their food bill? Not likely when the new iPhone has to be bought instead



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Yes but what about supply and demand, when the supply dries up will the price increase and the bullshit stop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Yes but CAP will be irrevelant soon with all the cuts and the extra expenses incurred and hoops to jump through to draw it down.

    I will be hanging on until the new golden age when farmers will be appreciated again. Or alternatively will they try and confiscate our land for the "greater good". Anything is possible with this loon green agenda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,118 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Just look at the last few ESRI reports. Inflation going bananas, yet food inflation was 0.6% or something. In other words, shops are still selling food below cost and marking up the other stuff. And this low food price keeps pressure on processors, etc to keep passing down the low prices. Been going on a long time now. Food is one of the few things that reacts differently to supply/demand due to the way it's sold. It's a loss leader. Margins are made elsewhere.

    Supply won't dry up. Food will be imported, or more processed crap sold on. I think we're a long way from being scarce in food. Even with a fall in supply, the world is overloaded with food. Isn't a huge percentage of it wasted (hello carbon emissions)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭alps


    Gonna be some opportunity for Irish farmers to take up that slack.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭alps


    Doing your bit is only part of it. The invertories are from an industry point of view. If the figures can balance from an overall perspective, the incumbarance put on the individual will be lower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭green daries


    Couldn't agree more with you but it is a sense of entitlement to criticize agriculture in general. Pay extra!!!! They don't think they should have to pay what their paying already



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭green daries


    I agree to a point but it is very noticeable that the price of a loaf of bread has doubled and the price of two litre of Milk has fallen slightly they are the two main loss leaders in the supermarkets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭green daries


    I would hope of a price rise to match the current inflation but I am too afraid we as farmers will be left holding the baby when the music stops



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Recent headlines, Donegal Catch is Alaskan fish, processed in Poland. I wouldn't go counting chickens just yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭ginger22


    well all I know is that within a 10 mile radius of here there are 5 farms selling off their dairy herds this Spring each milking from 100 to 250 cows with years and that is only the ones I know of, there could be many more.

    For shure the liquid milk market is a basket case with the CoOps competing with each other, farmers on boards should put their foot down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭alps


    Put their foot down and what? Strathroy is privately owned. Glanbia is a plc.. What farmer board members can put the foot down?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭SuperTortoise


    It won't because our industry is a price taking industry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭green daries


    Glanbia is no longer a plc strathroy are not the boogy man the rest would like us to think glanbia are the sole reason why liquid is in big trouble



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,132 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Inflation isn't going to trickle down to farmers unless either there is a shortage or else they have exposure to the top end of the market (which 99% dont)



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Some interesting statements to the Oireachtas Environment & Climate Action Committee from 4 climate experts.

    The credentials of those experts

    • Andrew Jackson, Environmental Lawyer, UCD (written submission)
    • Barry McMullin, Dean of Engineering, DCU
    • John Sweeney, Emeritus Prof Climatology, NUIM
    • Kevin Anderson, Prof Energy and Climate change, Manchester University.

    Points raised were

    • Ireland is subsidising fossil fuels to the tune of €2.4bn a year (CSO, 2019). At COP26 we agreed to start phasing those out, but for now Ireland plans only to produce a road map for cutting subsidies in 2024. - Prof John Sweeney
    • Ireland is wealthy, educated, low population density, with great renewables potential, but according to SEAI only 11% of our energy is green. In other words 90% of it is unsustainable and we have failed to reduce our emissions since 1990. - Prof Kevin Anderson 
    • Our current Carbon Budgets fail to take account of emissions from Aviation and Shipping in a way that is legally questionable. If we included them we would have to adjust for a further 40 million tons of CO2e by 2030. - Prof Barry McMullin
    • If a globally fair and equitable system of emissions cuts were to be applied and Ireland were to play its part in keeping global warming to 1.5 degrees we would have to reduce to Net Zero emissions by 2029 not 2050. - Prof Kevin Anderson
    • Our annual emissions cutting ambition needs to be closer to 11% than 7% per annum to fulfil Paris Agreement obligations. - Prof John Sweeney
    • Backloading actual emissions cuts to future carbon budgets places an unfair burden on future generations. It is interesting to note Germany's highest court recently held 55% cuts by 2030 infringed human rights of the young. New target there now 65%. - Dr Andrew Jackson
    • If Ag reduces emissions by only 33%, that means a 60% burden for the rest of society. If Ag reduces by only 15%, that means an 80% burden on rest of society. If only 10%, which is language used in Food Vision 2030, burden on rest of society "unmanageable" - Prof John Sweeney
    • Ireland has still not delivered its long term (2050) emissions reduction strategy, despite the deadline for this having passed two years ago. All our strategies are reliant on technology that has not yet been invented or tested at scale. - Dr Andrew Jackson

    Source - Twitter thread from Journalist Philip Boucher Hayes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,005 ✭✭✭✭Birdnuts


    These people are away with the Fairies - first off fossil fuels are heavily taxed in this country, spinning BS about "subsidies" says alot about the real motivations of these so called "experts" who clearly have no idea of the needs of a national grid when you look at the Eirgrid dash board this week in terms of where power is being generated.

    Post edited by Birdnuts on


  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That info is coming directly from the CSO, which you can review at the link below which has the full details and data.

    As regards energy generation and fossil fuels, you are correct, we've almost eliminated all fossil fuels from our generation with the exception of gas. Oil, coal and peat are almost at zero and are unlikely to form any part of generation after 2023.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,005 ✭✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Their definition of a "subsidy" appears to be a "varying tax rate" - since most of the cost of a litre of fuel at the pump is now government tax that definition is obvious misleading nonsense!! As for replacing the likes coal and peat in power generation, the vast bulk of that will be met by gas, to the extent that pretty much all new data centres etc. will have to have on site gas generation.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not "their" definition, they are using the definition as defined by the OECD. From the CSO page

    The OECD defines a subsidy as the result of a government action that confers an advantage on consumers or producers, in order to supplement their income or lower their costs.


    This definition includes tax expenditures such as tax rebates, tax repayments and reduced tax rates, as well as direct subsidies. Tax expenditures are estimated using the revenue foregone method, which is described in the Background Notes.


    A subsidy is a fossil fuel subsidy if it is likely to incentivise fossil fuel activities.


    Fossil fuel activities include exploration, extraction, manufacturing, refining and distribution of fossil fuels on the production side, as well as research and development supporting any of the above. Fossil fuel consumption by all sectors of the economy is also fossil fuel activity.

    And yeah, gas is the primary source for power generation at present but the share of gas will be decreasing rapidly as off-shore wind generation ramps up.

    CSO also put together the info graphic below

    image.png

    Honestly looks like diesel and aviation fuels are ripe for more taxation.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Further details on the committee meeting. There's going to be a lot more pain in terms of meeting emission limits the longer things drag on




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,522 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Wait til the next recession here and the agri-food sector will once again be held up as a top performer. In the last one the food and drink exports were lauded for keeping the lights on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭green daries


    Did you not hear there will be no more recessions. data centres are going to keep the Job going also according to our learned friend here there are no longer needs for roads and traffic relief in congested cities.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Liquid milk is only a tiny fraction of Irish milk production and anyway it is only a hardship business. The real price setter is the cheese, butter and powder markets.



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