Ethics of taking a pig's heart for transplant

Finty Lemon · 11-01-2022 4:02pm #1

"A US man has become the first person in the world to get a heart transplant from a genetically-modified pig.

David Bennett, 57, is doing well three days after the experimental seven-hour procedure in Baltimore, doctors say.

The transplant was considered the last hope of saving Mr Bennett's life, though it is not yet clear what his long-term chances of survival are.

"It was either die or do this transplant," Mr Bennett explained a day before the surgery.

"I know it's a shot in the dark, but it's my last choice," he said.

Doctors at the University of Maryland Medical Center were granted a special dispensation by the US medical regulator to carry out the procedure, on the basis that Mr Bennett - who has terminal heart disease - would otherwise have died" BBC News

Very interesting from a science perspective, but what are people's opinion on the ethics of this? Does it go too far in contravention of certain religious views or other life principles?

11-01-2022 4:03pm

in contravention of whose religious views, the pig's?

they are hardly forcing hearts into people so apart from the patient what could anyone else's religious views have to do with it?

11-01-2022 4:05pm

I'm sure the recipient of the organ, now alive and well, is as happy as a pig in **** about its success. That's all that matters.

If anyone complains about using pig organs, to then proceed to horse into some bacon sandwich later (or any other animal sourced food), I can't forgive their hypocrisy.

Allinall · 11-01-2022 4:05pm

Hold on while I just finish this bacon sandwich, and I'll give you my view on the ethics of it.

11-01-2022 4:06pm

People should keep their religious views to themselves.

"I disagree with pig heart transplants".......fair enough, then, don't have a pig heart transplant if you need one. Same goes for marrying gay people and about 5 million other things.

mikethecop · 11-01-2022 4:07pm

Hardly an issue really is it ? ethically at least

I mean Im not too bothered about how the steak i had for dinner felt about it , nor will i be thinking about the potatoes that were sacrificed for the chips to go with it

corner of hells · 11-01-2022 9:51pm

Where's yer man , Pighead, when ya need him .

Gatling · 11-01-2022 10:01pm

So we save lives with pigs hearts because people are too selfish to donate theirs,

God bless science and surgeons willing to push the envelope to save lives

11-01-2022 10:08pm

A good chunk of the world don’t eat pork because it’s ‘unclean’ but can do if it’s a matter of starvation. Presumably this means they would also be happy with donor organs if it’s a matter of life and death.

11-01-2022 10:11pm

What religious views does it contravene? I'm not religious so doesn't bother me.

No issue with using a pig heart. Not sure what genetically modified pig is exactly

tabby aspreme · 11-01-2022 10:11pm

4 legs good, 2 legs better

SouthWesterly · 11-01-2022 10:15pm

They already use pig tissue in heart surgery.

I've a mechanical valve.

It's not an issue.

osarusan · 11-01-2022 10:19pm

No issue with it if it works.

If it keeps people alive who otherwise wouldn't be (even if only until a suitable human heart becomes available) then great.

Hopefully it extends beyond just hearts and into other organs (even from other animals, although that's unlikely).

Imagine the lives that could be saved.

11-01-2022 10:23pm

If the religion you’re referring to is Jewish they’re not allowed eat pigs.. but no one says they can’t use the organs?

SuperBowserWorld · 11-01-2022 10:29pm

Pigs - as intelligent as dogs and have an absolutely terrible, brutal life in industrialised farming.

Oh, and they also provided insulin for humans who could no longer produce it.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/insulin/animal-insulin.html

1percent · 11-01-2022 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458061#Comment_118458061

This has the advantage of genetic modification of the animal to reduce the problem of rejection so in theory is a more beneficial source.

In theory as this picks up and develops, say I go in to real failure, I would go to the lab have my cheek swabbed and the lab coats use my DNA to create a porcine embryo that would be geneticly identical to me. IVF it into a Sow then 3 months, 3 weeks and 3days, the gestational period for a pig, Wilber is born and 6months later once he has matured we go under the knife and do the old switcherroo of the kidneys. No issue with rejection because as far as my immune system is concerned there is no diferace.

It has the potential that changing a liver is as minor as removing a gall bladder.

end of the road · 11-01-2022 10:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455985#Comment_118455985

realistically that is not workable or viable as

free speech means people with religious views can express those views if and where they want.
one of the most important things of a religion as far as i understand is spreading the teachings and all else of that religion.
if you want people who you disagree with to keep their views, religious or otherwise to themselves then ultimately it stands to reason that we should have to keep our views to ourselves on anything and never express them, which ultimately means no more boards for example.
simply telling someone who disagrees with something not to partake in that something doesn't ultimately work since they disagree with it and believe that they should express their disagreement or even campaign to get the thing they disagree with stopped.
this transplant is certainly more proof of the wonderful things that can be done now days, medical treatments are advancing all of the time.

11-01-2022 10:58pm

Remember the first lad to get a human heart transplant in South Africa in the 60s survived less than 2 weeks. In this case, i expect lots of surgical technique learning to do to, but the real challenge to longterm success will be preventing organ rejection as the heart is a completely different species. I wonder has there been some genetic manipulation done to the donor pig?

Quantum Erasure · 11-01-2022 11:05pm

I was more concerned with the 'genetically modified' bit, thought they might be splicing in human DNA somehow... I think they only turn off certain genes which would trigger the immune system of the recipient to reject the transplant,

One eyed Jack · 11-01-2022 11:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058227288/ethics-of-taking-a-pigs-heart-for-transplant

By “ethics… and other life principles”, is this what you mean?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-59951264

I don’t think vegans and animal rights groups will be too enamoured by the idea, not sure I’m exactly taken with the idea myself tbh, from the perspective of human recipients I mean though, as opposed to any ethical concerns about animal donors - I eat meat and make use of various animal products already, wouldn’t want them inside me on a more permanent basis though than the length of time it takes to pass through my digestive system.

11-01-2022 11:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458373#Comment_118458373

They are free to express themselves alright, but nobody is obliged to listen to it or even acknowledge it. And I'm equally as free to tell them to shut it.

It is the very fact that they are "spreading the teachings and all else of that religion" which gets people's backs up. Nobody wants to hear that crap coming from such a downright disgusting and evil organisation as the RCC in Ireland.

Imagine pontificating about the rights and wrongs of the human body when you were an integral part of the mass murder of children and their bodies. Demonising women for "straying from the path" as you sell their kids to wealthy Americans and pocketing the cash. Complicit in covering up the rampant sexual abuse of society's most vulnerable souls, to the point where you moved them along to a fresh batch of kids in the next parish over in order to save your own embarrassment.

This week alone, the Pope was chastising everyone, not just Catholics, mind, but everyone for not having kids. Why isn't he doing his part? Why doesn't he have kids? Why doesn't he issue a papal decree to allow priests to have kids?

The church, in fact all organised religions, are free to express whatever they want. And we are free to tell them to go fook themselves with a ball of rusty barbed wire, cos I'll be damned (literally) if I'll be lectured on the moral rights and wrongs of such a bunch of scumbags.

12-01-2022 12:03am

I love animals. I despise factory farming and hope ourselves push the EU for higher standards (which we're in the best place to hit compared to most places) on animal welfare and food standards.

That said, if one of my parents or siblings needed something out of a pig you could give me a knife and I'll kill pigs til I pass out from exhaustion if that's what it took to get it.

12-01-2022 12:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455985#Comment_118455985

You disagree with Voltaire then?

12-01-2022 12:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458758#Comment_118458758

How did the Catholic Church even get into this? The op merely mentioned religion as an aside, theres no indication that Catholicism is especially or even opposed to this.

12-01-2022 12:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458391#Comment_118458391

from a genetically-modified pig

12-01-2022 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458840#Comment_118458840

It wasn't mentioned as an aside at all. The OP asked two questions, one of which was 100% about certain religious views. For too long we've been kowtowing to those certain religious views and anyone who is against saving lives through medical science such as this can swivel on it, AFAIC

Gatling · 12-01-2022 12:48am

Most wives call their husbands pigs at some stage ,I'd imagine the reply coming well dear I'm part pig afterall ,

Other options are quite slim ,make organ donation mandatory if organs can be harvested ,that way organs become available on a daily basis that could save lives ,or do a china and take organs from prisoners ,and sell them to the highest bidder,

Or genetically modified pigs and others animals if possible being used to fill the massive supply shortages

Fandymo · 12-01-2022 12:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058227288/ethics-of-taking-a-pigs-heart-for-transplant

If your heart gives up you should just die. Your time is up. Keeping people alive is extremely expensive in the long run. Use your time wisely and when it’s up it’s up.

boardise · 12-01-2022 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058227288/ethics-of-taking-a-pigs-heart-for-transplant

Sow what ?

AmberGold · 12-01-2022 12:52am

No problem with any of it. This is great progress however if I don’t know how I’d feel about the sausage sandwiches after the op. Next on the list will be pig lungs transplants into humans. Religion has no part to play in the real world!

end of the road · 12-01-2022 12:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458758#Comment_118458758

realistically all of that is irrelevant to my point.

Ethics of taking a pig's heart for transplant

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