Ethics of taking a pig's heart for transplant

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455985#Comment_118455985

So don't have a pig heart transplant if you are marrying gay people? 🤔

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458444#Comment_118458444

I'm not sure about pig and human DNA, but it is well known that pig and elephant DNA just won't splice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RztfjHdM-pg

iarann

<quote>I'm not sure about pig and human DNA, but it is well known that pig and elephant DNA just won't splice.</quote>

Just as well, the average weight for an elephant heart is about 12 to 21 kg, that would be some transplant!

Quantum Erasure

man-bear-pig

BorneTobyWilde

Hopefully the surgeon did a good job, and didn't makes a pigs ear out of the operation.

BorneTobyWilde

Why not use a human heart, I guess a good heart these days is hard to find.

wandererz

I won't comment one way or the other about this.

A very insightful / introspective movie I remember though is Okja from 2017 (Korean).

Watch it in HD & Dolby Atmos if you can.

Quantum Erasure

what do they do with the rest of the pig when it's fulfilled its duty?

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459271#Comment_118459271

They use every part of the pig except the squeal.

whisky_galore

Man gets heart and enjoys bacon sarnie afterwards. Win win.

Kermit.de.frog

I wonder how you would psychogically feel having an animal heart after a transplant.

I'd imagine it could be nightmarish. I don't think I'd be able to ignore thinking about it for 5 minutes.

Personally I wouldn't take it because I wouldn't be happy.

As another poster said, when your time is up probably best to leave the stage.

Depends on the individual at the end of the day though

riddles

The pig was heard singing “a good heart these days is hard to find so please be gentle with this heart of mine!”

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459323#Comment_118459323

would you rather be dead? that was the alternative for this patient.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458444#Comment_118458444

Only briefly looked over the story myself so apologies if I get the details wrong. But as I understand it:

1) Pigs are used because - surprisingly enough - their hearts are more similar to ours than Chimps and other primates. And the heart in pigs grow to the required size much faster too. 6 months I think is the required time to get it to the size required.

2) There was 10 genetic modifications done to the pig DNA as follows:

3) 4 of these were knocking out genes from the pig DNA - especially one which encodes for a particular molecule known to be a main player in rejection.

4) 1 of these 4 was a growth gene which was knocked out to prevent the heart growing any more inside the human after implantation.

5) The 6 other changes were human genes inserted into the Genome of the pig DNA. All of the modifications that I can see are related to making the heart more friendly to the human immune system response.

6) Interestingly the transplant itself was not the only ground breaking progress here either - though of course it is the headline the public will most be interested in. But at the same time the immune system of the recipient was suppressed by a new experimental drug to prevent rejection. While the heart itself was preserved up until implantation using a new perfusion technology. So two new technologies brought into play there too.

Overall an interesting story.

As to the OPs questions: Not struggling with the ethics of it myself as we already use animals for food and grind up their organs to produce insulin and so on. So finding one more use on top of all that seems relatively irrelevant. What religious concerns have to do with it I am unclear. If - to paraphrase Obamas speech on secularism - the religious can translate their religiously motivated concerns into real world arguments accessible to us all - I am happy to hear them speak on the matter. Other than that - listen to them if you feel like it - and let them off down the ballot box like the rest of us :)

Hoop66

Better pigs than...

Read Kazuo Ishiguro's "Never Let Me Go"

pawdee

Butcher what harm is there in trying? The irony though. Say you need a heart transplant because you've eaten too many pork scratchings? Then up steps Mr Porky himself to save your life!

Donald Trump

If you do get a pigs heart, don't tell the locals if you go canoeing in Leitrim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLN3QoN-q8

chrissb8

Nothing ethically wrong about it, killed for meat, killed for a life saving operation. If someone told me that there was an outside chance my Dad could live but a genetically altered pig had to die I wouldn't bat an eyelid. In terms of messing with the natural order, we're way past that. We have bred animals exclusively to fit our uses for them for centuries.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455985#Comment_118455985

Ah but religion is not the only source of ethical objections to exploiting pig products

OMM 0000

Kill a pig: LEGAL

Eat a pig: LEGAL

Cut out a pigs heart and put it in your body: LEGAL

Perform oral sex on a pig: ILLEGAL

What.

🤯

Hotblack Desiato

I don’t think vegans and animal rights groups will be too enamoured by the idea

Fúck 'em tbh.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467964#Comment_118467964

Well, to be fair, you were well aware that it was illegal, and if you didn't want to get into trouble for it, you shouldn't have videoed yourself doing it and posted it to tiktok.

Hotblack Desiato

It's legal to perform oral sex on a pig if (a) the pig is dead and (b) you are a future Prime Minister.

MarkEadie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118465419#Comment_118465419

Yeah all the religious stuff is "when its your time to go it's your time to go". Stop taking man made medicines then.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459323#Comment_118459323

Are you serious?

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459335#Comment_118459335

Don't go bacon my heart

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/01/13/patient-received-groundbreaking-pig-heart-transplant-previously/

Ethics of experimenting on ex-prisoners ?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476785#Comment_118476785

do you think they did it without his permission?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476785#Comment_118476785

From a medical ethics perspective it’s justifiable -

Medical ethics experts allege the separation between the legal and healthcare systems 'exists for good reason'. 

'We have a legal system designed to determine just redress for crimes,' said Scott Halpern, a medical ethics professor at the University of Pennsylvania. 'And we have a health-care system that aims to provide care without regard to people's personal character or history.' 

'The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are,' Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor at New York University, echoed. 'We are not in the business of sorting sinners from saints. Crime is a legal matter.' 

I’d prefer medicine didn’t go down the route of needing to assess whether or not to treat a patient based upon their own assessment of the patients moral character.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476586#Comment_118476586

FYP

It's legal to put your penis into a pig's mouth if (a) the pig is dead and (b) you are a future Prime Minister.

No pig, dead or alive, received oral sex from the future PM.