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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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Comments

  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thats 160 x 4.

    So 640 euro saved.

    So

    Tolls = 40 euro ( 4 trips)

    Fuel = 120 euro (4 trips)

    That leaves you with a saving of 480 euro.

    Hard to argue with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

    I wouldn't mind the MUP so much if it was at the levels that Scotland introduced but a quick glance at Carlsberg €2.40 litre vs 3.75 here - 50% more expensive (they even have specials if you have a clubcard). There's even some lagers cheaper than the likes of Lidl's own brand (pre MUP)


    That's quite some punch in the face for the ordinary guy here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Agree and it sends a big F You to the government and that prick from AAI



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    I hadn't seen your previous post, only in somebody else's quote.

    This will be the last time I will reply to you though, as you are not going to waste my time when you have literally nothing to bring to the table. You don't seem to have a grasp of what MUP is, and only seem to be happy to try and berate posters with nonsense or ask them for links or proof. Which is fine if you could discuss things and come up with some counter arguments. You clam to have been on this thread years yet are incapable of remembering any of the information that has already been brought up and linked to a lot of time.

    I have no interest in discussing anything with you any further after this and will definitely not be partaking in a back and forth.

    Anyway.

    The actual statistics are available for everyone to read, and are closer to 1000. And they are alcohol related deaths, Here are some of them, rather than every single stat. If they had jumped to the figure Frank Feighan was mentioning there would have been a lot more noise made about it. It would have been national headlines for one. He was throwing numbers around as scare tactics.

    Untitled Image Untitled Image Untitled Image

    In before you or anyone tries to say "attributable to"

    Frank Feighans statistic is Bullcrap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,102 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    So?

    What does it have to do in Ireland though. And don't say its on the HSE website. The link you provided previously is obviously and evidently from the UK



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Frank Feighan....How could somebody the calibre of a guy like this have any influence on our day to day lives?


    He's the kind of fella who if he told you he was running the tea stand at a Junior GAA match you'd send a few of the u14 girls over to make sure he didn't burn himself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,102 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,066 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Again based on the sheffield model which is ENTIRELY speculative, they literally conducted interviews of academics and what they will think would happen and based their findings off those.



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Arbitrary

    adjective

    1. based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
    2. "an arbitrary decision"


    I think the above sums it up really well. Off licenses an hour from the border will hardly be viable. Even if they lose 20 percent of business only. It wont help with health or deaths either. The down and out alco will turn to moon shine or drugs. But hey drug deaths will make it look like alcohol deaths have come down.

    This shower of nutters will go after the vaping next. Its a decision by anti alcohol pioneers. A nasty do gooder bunch who dont give a fcuk about our health or well being. They just hate to think others are having enjoyment and they have nothing in their miserable lives. I wonder how easy it would be to import a container of beer and not get caught. Haha. Plenty of drugs make it in.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,778 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Single market my fûcking hole. The Irish raped yet again. Looks like every other country is a better option than this shîthole.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,224 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    It was working before. Click on Reports for Other Jurisdictions.

    https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/scharr/research/themes/alpol/alcohol-group-publications



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,224 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    If it is for the link I tried, that is a super fast summary of 104 pages.



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What is the criteria for deaths related to alcohol? Are we talking about people who have literally drank themselves into oblivion or what? Is it for people who have died with a couple of pints onboard after having a heart attack?


    They are subjective if you ask and dont stack up. Very easy for the anti alcohol crowd to manipulate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,066 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    The title page says its an adaptation of the sheffield model which anyone like myself whose been involved in this discussion since it started several years ago is acutely aware of how flawed it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    2.5 years old but still relevant. It’s complete bullshit that Scots aren’t crossing the border for drink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭macraignil


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

    Thank you for the link. e-mail in relation to MUP sent to the TD I voted for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,305 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Yes they are Carlisle and Berwick on Tweed have seen a big boost in trade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,224 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Still it does give conclusions on what has been the topic of much debate here today, shopping for drink in the North. I would agree with what they say.

    6.8 COST IMPACTS ON SOCIETY A 90c MUP is estimated to lead to a cumulative saving to society of €1.2bn over 20 years from reductions in direct health costs (€178m), crime costs (€72m), reduced workplace absence (€160m) and gains in societal health (€775m). It should be noted that these figures do not include the potential productivity gain to society of those people who live longer or in better health as a result of the policy.

    6.9 POTENTIAL IMPACT OF MUP AND PRICE-BASED PROMOTIONS BAN ON CROSS-BORDER SHOPPING Owing to the shared land border and differential tax regimes between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, shopping trips across the border to Northern Ireland do occur. In 2010 the Irish Quarterly National Household Survey (QNHS) included a series of questions on cross border shopping in Northern Ireland by Irish residents [35]. The results of this survey show that in 2010 an 100 estimated 14% of households in Ireland made at least one shopping trip across the border, spending an average of €274 per trip [35]. Of this total €33 (12%) was spent on alcohol on average, with the majority (66%) being spent on groceries (€105) or clothing and other durables (€77). Households in the Border region were more than twice as likely to have shopped across the border as those from any other region (43% compared to 19% or less) and accounted for over half the total expenditure on cross-border shopping (€240million out of €418million). Around three quarters (25.6%) of spending cross-border was on dedicated shopping trips rather than expenditure on non-shopping trips. In addition to the QNHS figures, respondents to the NADS were asked whether the alcohol they had purchased in the last week was purchased in the country or abroad (including Northern Ireland). An exploratory analysis of this data suggests that survey respondents paid an average of 31% less per standard drink for alcohol purchased abroad. Taken together, these surveys suggest that Irish residents may be purchasing cheaper alcohol in Northern Ireland. However; the fact that alcohol represents a relatively small percentage of the total spend on cross-border shopping trips suggests that it may not be the principal motivation for most of these trips. Whilst it is therefore likely that MUP policies or promotions bans which increase the price of some alcohol may lead to some increase in cross-border purchasing in Northern Ireland, reducing the estimated impact of the policies, it is probable that such changes in purchasing habits will be small, especially for the large majority of the population (90%) who live outside the Border region.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,066 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,224 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    From memory Berwick is so close to the border that the local team competes in the Scottish leagues. Carlisle is not far away from Scotland either.

    But I wonder how many would make a trip from Inverness or Aberdeen?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭HBC08


    About 50% of the population (Dublin,border counties,Roscommon,Longford,Meath,Westmeath,probably more) are within an hour of Northern Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,224 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I'm only a few minutes away myself. I could save €100 every week if I bought enough drink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    I've heard of one guy who goes from Wales to England for one can of cheap cider from aldi to roast his pork joint in. So it looks like mup has failed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,305 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    The entirely predictable answer is not many.

    It's about 190 miles from Aberdeen to Berwick. Did you ever drive that road? I did and I wouldn't do it if the beer was free.

    Even further to Inverness.

    Fact remains that cross border trade increased since MUP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    It take me 50min to drive from Dublin15 to Dublin 1on a work day. So a spin to the north is a given



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Edinburgh is an hour away. But sure we'll just ignore that. I'm in north kildare. I'll justify heading up on a saturday morning four times a year if im saving 1400 or 1500 euro a year. I'll be home by lunch time.

    With such a large population of the country so close to the border this will fail and business will close.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,526 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I absolutely understand what MUP is, but what I don't do is row in with this groupthink that a. It has zero health benefits and b. That it's a sop to the pubs.

    In the long term increased pricing means that less young people will be able to aquire alcohol thus they have less chance of developing alcohol related problems.

    Include in that reduced visibility and promotion and young people grown up with less exposure to alcohol around them.

    It has worked for smoking, 30 years ago close on 50% of young people smoked (someone posted that in a link a few days ago), it now in the mid teens, that's a phenomenal turnaround.

    The same can be done with drink.

    And there is zero downside to people consuming less alcohol.

    On the it's a sop to the pubs point. If anyone needs proof that any Irish government is not in the pocket of the vintners, regardless of what decade old election promises say, just look at the last 18 months.

    No other western modern country has treated their pub and entertainment industry like the Irish have treated theirs.

    MUP is not ideal, but it's one tool in tackling our drink problem and I for one am willing to give it a go, because we need to tackle our alcohol problem.

    As for your stats, why don't you post the link to the place you got the images, so that we can read it all for ourselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,224 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    How much would that make your expenditure in a year?



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  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nonsense. Everyone getting punished isnt a solution. Its a punishment and nothing else. All that will happen is youngsters will go toward drugs.


    Riddle me this. If your so interested in tackling problems for the social good then why no tackle the coke epidemic or the heroin addicts in dublin city?

    I'll tell you why. Because its about ruining the enjoyment of ordinary working people like yourself. Its spiteful stuff is all. A real nasty move.


    Drink problem in ireland my arse. I suppose if we are told it enough times we will start to believe it.



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