Are professional photographers using phones now ??

mondeo · 04-01-2022 06:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415410#Comment_118415410

Google

04-01-2022 06:17PM

Even if the camera were the phone, there are other things you'd still need to set up a professional shot - especially lighting / reflectors and so on.

There are tripods, mounts and so on for phones.

I know someone who shot quite impressive documentary footage using nothing but an iPhone Pro, but they still needed some extra gear - particularly microphones and lighting.

My main issue with the pro photographer is that there's no real reason why you'd limit yourself to a smartphone. They're great if you're out in a remote location, but when you've got the facilities to bring serious camera gear, lighting, tripods etc with you, you probably would make use of them. I mean there are definitely things a DSLR can do that a phone can't.

That being said, I have also seen a few people who seemed shocked that someone used a DSLR camera to shoot video, but that's become quite common, especially in fast moving documentary stuff and some of those cameras are optically far superior to big heavy TV-camera style camcorders, yet people would automatically assume you've cheap / basic equipment if you brought one to a shoot and they're expecting Telefis Eireann/BBC 1970s/80s style huge cameras

Turquoise Hexagon Sun · 04-01-2022 06:36PM

Thing about using phones is that most of the lenses on phones are wide-angle lenses which are really dogshit for taking beautiful portraits. Fine or architecture or landscapes.

A good photographer shooting for an people oriented event will have high speed lenses and for photographing people the minimum of an 85mm lens to get complimentary results.

When it comes to flash, I don't know how anyone will get away with a phone.

I know cameras on phones are getting really great. So, I offer things like off-camera flash and light diffusers for soft light. This is absolutely unavailable from a phone so, that's where I differentiate myself. Its not just a matter of flashing a a big SLR, its about having various lenses for each occasion, and the ability to use camera triggers/receiver's and knowing light, understanding the science and principles of photography.

Op, want to PM me the guys website. Curious to see

Shilock · 04-01-2022 06:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417400#Comment_118417400

I've an old digital canon that the previous owner never used, it's an slr from 2012 they went back to using film. They don't like the digital photography. Supposedly there's something more satisfying about being an old school photographer working in the darkroom and going through film and different processes.

In fairness when she's using a camera phone she's able to capture the moment, but she swears by the old school photography and dark rooms.

Turquoise Hexagon Sun · 04-01-2022 07:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417439#Comment_118417439

I think it's absolute romanticism. I mean that in a kind way. Or, it's just a preference for one process over the other. In a dark room you are mixing chemicals, and processing film and using enlargers. In digital you are sitting at a computer processing images via software.

I enjoy the analogue process of dark room photography. Its beautiful. But most people can't tell the difference of the end result. It's cheaper, faster and you'll get the same if not better results to shoot digital.

Gregor Samsa · 04-01-2022 07:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417439#Comment_118417439

I'm not a professional photographer, but I'm into photography, and have a background in art and design and studied in two colleges in the '90s where I did modules in photography using film and darkrooms. There was something zen about developing your own film and processing your own photographs by hand, but it was very time consuming and my god did the chemicals give me a headache. I can understand how some people would enjoy it as a hobby, but for any professional photographer who's time is money, the shift to digital was an absolute godsend. However, no photographer worth their salt - amature or professional - produces unprocessed digital photographs, so a lot of time is spent now in front of a computer screen processing photos, rather than in a darkroom. And I can fully understand why that's not appealing for some. Sitting here at the comfort of my desk, I have a certain nostalgia for the darkroom, but I'd say after an hour in one I'd be done for another 30 years. And you'd get feck all done in an hour.

It also depends on what kind of photographer you are. For someone doing wedding photography, where they're they could take a thousand photos in a day, digital photography offers major economic and time advantages. For a fine art photographer, where they can work entirely at their own pace, and the process is part of their vision, the darkroom experience could offer irreplaceable advantages. Some press and sport photographers need to send photos back to the commissioning photo desk straight from their camera without even downloading them to anything, so the very idea of film photography would be inconceivable to them nowadays.

As for the OP's iPhone photographer, modern phones are technically impressive, and a lot of the skill in photography is in they eye rather than the gear. But the simple fact is that phones are a compromise in comparison to even the most basic dedicated camera system. I'm not sure that anyone serious about their craft or business would deliberately hobble themselves just to cut down on carrying a bag or two.

04-01-2022 08:56PM

I don't really buy any argument that claims film is superior to digital. It’s just a chemical sensor or an electronic sensor. The later is now far, far superior in every way - better dynamic range, colour accuracy, speed and resolution.

The romanticism of film is basically that it causes a nostalgic effect, which is entirely down to it being inaccurate and it can be reproduced digitally.

What you cannot reproduce though is the flexibility and power of large lenses. Cameras in phones are phenomenal devices and their software is absolutely mind blowing in terms of what it can produce, but for artistic shots having complete control over the image and having the ability to change lenses, use more complex lighting and all of those things is a huge deal.

The other big difference is the size of the sensor. A DSLR has a pretty large sensor, comparable to film in scale. That can record a lot more subtly than a smaller sensor and clever software and flat lenses.

humberklog · 04-01-2022 09:20PM

I make my living as an Artistic Photographer which is different than a Professional Photographer. But I'm in that game. I sell photographic images but I know a lot of Pro's that are in the game of satisfying a client's request.

To rock up with a phone in hand to meet a client for a shoot sounds nuts to me and certainly wouldn't give off a "value for money" vibe.

But, depending on what was needed and if I was happy with their website and I was happy with their price- I'd let them on.

I'd judge them on the results (and only pay if I was happy with those results).

But image is everything. Whether that's the image of a Pro with a phone camera on the job or the images that Pro supplies to the client is another matter.

I'd certainly have a raised eye-brow though and a bit of a chuckle if I'd hired them.

OP what was the gig though? You were kind enough to answer part of my question earlier but not that part.

California Dreamer · 06-01-2022 08:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413434#Comment_118413434

But you are complaining!

Esse85 · 06-01-2022 09:04AM

Did you read the previous reviews for this persons work?

Sounds like little thought or effort went into researching this photographer.

What rates were you expecting to be charged for this, what was agreed?

Mister Vain · 06-01-2022 09:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414899#Comment_118414899

That's what I was thinking. I suppose if he ever forgets his phone he can always borrow someone else's.

AndrewJRenko · 06-01-2022 10:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413434#Comment_118413434

What do you mean when you say 'it didn't cost me anything'? Was this a paid gig or what?

Try showing the photos to a comms or PR professional without mentioning the phone issue and see what they think of the end result.

B.A._Baracus · 06-01-2022 11:07AM

I see the thread is starting to descend into the usual off topic madness.

Hey op, you did the right thing. Like you hired someone on good faith after seeing his website, soon as he rocked his phone out you also did the right thing by telling him on his bike.

A total chancer.

StupidLikeAFox · 06-01-2022 11:19AM

How much was he charging out of Curiosity?

Pawwed Rig · 06-01-2022 11:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425422#Comment_118425422

Read the thread. It cost him nothing because he didn't use the services of the photographer in the end and got his friends to use their phones.

Quazzie · 06-01-2022 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425507#Comment_118425507

He hired someone to get an end product. When he found out the person was able to produce that using more basic equipment he got hissy and sent him home without ever seeing the end product.

B.A._Baracus · 06-01-2022 01:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425964#Comment_118425964

Are you for real?

You're a chancers wet dream lol.

Esse85 · 06-01-2022 01:33PM

Any decent photography person/company I've ever hired always asked for a deposit up front, and rightly too.

Wonder can the OP let us know if he was asked to pay a deposit?

mondeo · 06-01-2022 03:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418287#Comment_118418287

We wanted to create a portfolio of family photos, really nice ones we could print out and hang onto.

mondeo · 06-01-2022 03:46PM

The agreed price was €175 which includes prints from his own in-house equipment. I guess this meant his printer in his bedroom his mum got him for xmas. No deposit was asked up front, he seemed very laid back which I appreciated at the time. Ye he was a chancer no doubt and he had some testimonials on his website which can be faked quite easily to.

humberklog · 06-01-2022 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427460#Comment_118427460

Oh right. Holy moly.

Ah there's loads of Pro's out there well able to fulfil that brief with something better than their phone and for a modest enough €400 to €600 fee I'd imagine.

Faolchu · 06-01-2022 03:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426220#Comment_118426220

probably the "Pro" in question

Faolchu · 06-01-2022 03:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427506#Comment_118427506

at €175 including prints i wonder how any prints youre actually getting, on what grade paper and how long teh session was for because hat seems extreeeeeeeeeeemy good value for money

Quazzie · 06-01-2022 04:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427568#Comment_118427568

No pro. But if I walk into Tesco to buy a photo frame I buy it because I judge what I'm getting now how or where it was made. The OP looked at a portfolio and was impressed enough to commit to buy but then decided against it when he seen how it was being made. Seems a bit pretentious. If he seen the end product and decided it wasn't good enough then he'd have reasonable grounds for dismissal.

Then it became he wanted a portfolio of photos printed for €175. Says it all really. Ya get what ya pay for.

humberklog · 06-01-2022 05:24PM

Ah I missed the €175 part there.

Yeah. You were probably getting value for money there, depending on the quality of the phone tbh.

06-01-2022 05:42PM

I think you're being harsh tbh. There's a YouTube series where a pro photographer has to use a crappy old camera, and most of the time they produce photos that you wouldnt believe had been made by that old camera. Some current phone cameras are much better than a DSLR made say 10 years ago, but if someone turned up with a Nikon D80 you probably wouldn't know that it was 15 years old. Similarly if they turned up with a small Fuji kit you wouldn't know that it was modern mirrorless technology and the equal of a huge Canon.

All that said, I'm surprised he only used a phone, these days a pro using a phone wouldn't make me bat an eyelid, but I'd expect a few also taken with a "better" camera capable of blurring the background, for example, too.

I'd have given him a chance and see what the results are like, not pay up front. A lot of the art of photography is the right framing, the right moment, etc and doesn't depend on the quality of your camera or phone. Using a phone might let him get shots that he otherwise wouldn't as people ignore someone with a camera, but not someone with a huge DSLR.

Mister Vain · 06-01-2022 07:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118428206#Comment_118428206

It can be done, but as Octopod said, there's no reason why you'd limit yourself to a smartphone. I was semi-pro before covid but I wouldn't dream of using my phone for a TFP shoot, let alone one where I'm getting paid. I wonder if the rest of the photos on his website were also taken with a phone.

Faolchu · 07-01-2022 12:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427614#Comment_118427614

but the website which can easily be fake by using prepaid stock images would probably not state what equipment is in use, so its reasonable to assume that a pro would use pro level gear not a smart phone. so when the"pro" turns up with what equates to unprofessional kit then its reasonable that the OP could say "not for me". similarly if you take your car to a mechanic you assume he has the tools for the job, if you then find that he's using a kitchen knife instead of a flat head screwdriver you'd walk away.

the OPs first red flag should have been the price, €175 for a session with prints from a "pro" = pay peanuts get monkeys. €175 from an amature using a DSLR wiuth prints done on thier own at home printer is reasonable. teh purchaser is getting a session and prints, teh photographer is buildinga portfolio. I suspect thsi is actually what is going on, that the OP googled "photographer near me" say this persons work and reached out. that person responded set a price and figured it was reasonable.

as i mentiond you can get extremly good images on a phone these days. and i know a pro that did a whole set on a phone then sold them at about €500 a pop. but he's an established artist, it was a limited run, 10 of each image only sold, and the price included mounting and framing. but the run was in teh Street Photography Genre and not portrature.

as a lay person, if i'm hiring the services of a pro for a portrait session I'd expect what looks like a pro level camera eg DSLR, id expect some form of off camera light be it a speed light of strobe, and id expect things to help modify the light in the tool bag such as reflectors, umbrellas etc. and if tehy turned up with a phone i'd show them the door.

Are professional photographers using phones now ??

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