Are professional photographers using phones now ??

mondeo

Had an occasion there recently where we needed to hire a photographer for a few hours. A guy comes out and pulls a phone out of his arse pocket and starts snapping away... Sure I could have done this myself or got a friend to do it if I knew he was going to use a mobile phone... I called him out on it and asked him where is his proper camera since he is a professional ? He said many photographers these days are using high end phones instead of carrying heavy camera equipment.. So any gobshite can take a picture using his iphone and call themselves a professional ? I asked him to go and we will do the picture taking ourselves. Was I wrong to do this ?

What would you think if you hired a professional photographer for a wedding or other special event and someone pulls their iphone out ??

TXPTGR1

Chancer- tell him to stick it

TXPTGR1

And yeah talented photographer with a high end phone will take better pics than an amateur with a 10K camera but there is a big difference equipment wise between proper camera and phone despite what apples marketing would have you believe

Gregor Samsa

I'd tell him he can do the job if he's willing to be be paid-in-kind with my equally professional service.

Then I'd show him the Swiss Army knife I practice dentistry with.

mondeo

My perception here was for someone to show up with an SLR with a proper lense, camera stand etc. Maybe the guy was very talented with his phone but as a customer I expected something else. I just seen some young person taking pictures with a mobile phone and it crossed me as unprofessional.

Quazzie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413374#Comment_118413374

How did your own photos turns out?

TXPTGR1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413405#Comment_118413405

Why does that matter - however we’ll they turned out they would have turned out far better with a proper camera

mondeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413405#Comment_118413405

They turned out what I would expect from a phone camera, nothing overly spectacular but considering it didn't cost me anything I am not complaining.

Something to bear in mind - the phone may have been capable of generating RAW images (as well as JPEGs and just about every other format).

If you've not heard of RAW then have a read: https://photoswithphones.com/how-why-shoot-in-raw-smartphones/ - while RAW is the absolute best quality you'll get with digital photography but the equipment (lens, for example) will also affect the quality of the image.

If I hired a 'professional' and he pulled out an iPhone instead of a Nikon/Canon DSLR, then questions would be asked. There's a lot of 'pre-processing' done in the viewfinder (Framing, checking Depth of field and the like) that simply cannot be done as easily on a smart phone...

Nah, no questions, just a statement; 'Thanks for turning up, Bye now'

Quazzie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413426#Comment_118413426

They would've also turned out a lot better with someone who knew what they were doing working the camera.

Ubbquittious

The best camera is the one you have with you. But that doesn't apply if you have time to prepare when you go to a job

Camera lenses and sensors are not great. You can do way more with a proper camera

Esel

I've heard of phoning it in, but that is taking the piss.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413434#Comment_118413434

Sure you got what you paid for so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413434#Comment_118413434

If it didn't cost you anything, how was it a professional?

Strumms

The tools of a photographers trade are a camera, not a phone…

if I book a limo to take me to an event but a driver arrived in a Ford Mondeo, I’m not having… “well, it’s comfortable enough, leather trim and seats, aircon, driver in uniform…..

Rolls Royce, Mercedes, Bentley, Jaguar… that sort of standard…

professional photographer needs a camera with lenses…not a phone that takes photos. That isn’t the standard.

Mrs OBumble

How much did you pay? Did you get quotes, and choose the rock bottom one?

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414253#Comment_118414253

I book a limo to take me to an event but a driver arrived in a Ford Mondeo

OP *is* mondeo, man!

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414250#Comment_118414250

Did you even read the thread?

Citrus_8

My personal opinion is that a photographer, not the equipment, makes photos. Amature may have much worse result with the best camera (either built-in or stand alone), comparing to the professional photographer, using an old camera without processing the photos with software. It's all about the skills: how a photographer is able to catch and reproduct the moment in the picture without ruining that moment. However, it's hard for a customer to judge whether a photographer with a phone camera is such a high level photographer what he/she trust themselves to make photos with and it would look same or similarly excellent comparing to the camera alone, or just a beginner photographer who's doing it occasionally but not having a proper equipment yet. I believe, the best way to know the answer is to see their pricing and the final result. But I've seen even very expensive photographers presenting, in my own opinion, unsatisfactory results while some student begginer with a photo may demonstrate some nice surprises.

So, I wouldn't judge so quickly, but I also completely understand the customers' expectations - it's just not looking professional, and the experience is different.

humberklog

Any chance of more info OP?

What was the nature of the gig?

How did you decide on that particular photographer?

maestroamado

For me the use of a phone is very unprofessional even if the result the same. They need to have a proper camera ans a bit of cop-on...

Fair play to you for sending him on his way..

I would think it be ok for journalist...

Faolchu

a pro can create more with a simple camera compared to an amature thats a given even with a phone. that said a camera phone wouldnt have say a decent directional flash, wouldnt have different focal length lenses etc. add to this if all they have is a smart phone they they wouldn be able to modify the available light using defusers, reflectors etc. so while the image will be better than what an amature could produce it wouldnt be the best image the pro could have produeced even if they shot in RAW and carried out extensive post processing. of course to contradict everything i've said I know of one pro that recently did a showing of images he created on the london underground just using an iPhone. each image sole for about €500 each.

o1s1n

Sorry OP but this is actually hilarious, I really hope you told him where to go!

Crazy to think anyone would view this as acceptable carry on. I wonder did he accidentally forget his camera bag and tried to wing it with his phone?

Freddie Mcinerney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413304#Comment_118413304

Back up his hole?

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413324#Comment_118413324

As what you said more often than not it's the Indian not the arrow but yea I'd be expecting a better effort than a phone!

mondeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414849#Comment_118414849

I just googled photographers and a website showed up with some nice example shots. The person was in the Dublin area not too far away from me. I probably should have asked more questions like what type of equipment he was going to be using but what do I know... I just assumed he had a proper setup that wasn't a iphone like half the country has in their pockets.

"...and a website showed up with some nice example shots..."

And next go do an image search on a couple of the 'examples' just to see where they turn up. That website only would be the ideal.

skinny90

you did the right thing, Hiring out someone with a phone(regardless of their ability) is a bit much

The gap between cameras and phones has narrowed, and is even been surpassed by some of the high end phones, but you still lack the flexibility of having large lenses, much bigger sensors and subtle control that a camera allows.

However, the end result could still be excellent. Some of the best photos I’ve ever taken have been on a recent iPhone Pro and I have a heap of professional camera gear and know how to use it.

I’d still expect to see a bit more equipment than just a phone tho.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415338#Comment_118415338

It is an interesting thing to ponder, a huge part of the issue here is just how it looks - when you're paying for a photography service, there's a bit of pomp and ceremony to someone ushering folks around with a big SLR camera, setting up tripods etc. With smaller tech getting better and better, it does make you wonder will professional photographers still continue to break out the big guns just for show to distinguish them from everyone else there with a camera phone.

Atlantic Dawn

Where did you see him advertising his services from, Facebook?

mondeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415410#Comment_118415410

Google

Even if the camera were the phone, there are other things you'd still need to set up a professional shot - especially lighting / reflectors and so on.

There are tripods, mounts and so on for phones.

I know someone who shot quite impressive documentary footage using nothing but an iPhone Pro, but they still needed some extra gear - particularly microphones and lighting.

My main issue with the pro photographer is that there's no real reason why you'd limit yourself to a smartphone. They're great if you're out in a remote location, but when you've got the facilities to bring serious camera gear, lighting, tripods etc with you, you probably would make use of them. I mean there are definitely things a DSLR can do that a phone can't.

That being said, I have also seen a few people who seemed shocked that someone used a DSLR camera to shoot video, but that's become quite common, especially in fast moving documentary stuff and some of those cameras are optically far superior to big heavy TV-camera style camcorders, yet people would automatically assume you've cheap / basic equipment if you brought one to a shoot and they're expecting Telefis Eireann/BBC 1970s/80s style huge cameras

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

Thing about using phones is that most of the lenses on phones are wide-angle lenses which are really dogshit for taking beautiful portraits. Fine or architecture or landscapes.

A good photographer shooting for an people oriented event will have high speed lenses and for photographing people the minimum of an 85mm lens to get complimentary results.

When it comes to flash, I don't know how anyone will get away with a phone.

I know cameras on phones are getting really great. So, I offer things like off-camera flash and light diffusers for soft light. This is absolutely unavailable from a phone so, that's where I differentiate myself. Its not just a matter of flashing a a big SLR, its about having various lenses for each occasion, and the ability to use camera triggers/receiver's and knowing light, understanding the science and principles of photography.

Op, want to PM me the guys website. Curious to see

Shilock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417400#Comment_118417400

I've an old digital canon that the previous owner never used, it's an slr from 2012 they went back to using film. They don't like the digital photography. Supposedly there's something more satisfying about being an old school photographer working in the darkroom and going through film and different processes.

In fairness when she's using a camera phone she's able to capture the moment, but she swears by the old school photography and dark rooms.

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417439#Comment_118417439

I think it's absolute romanticism. I mean that in a kind way. Or, it's just a preference for one process over the other. In a dark room you are mixing chemicals, and processing film and using enlargers. In digital you are sitting at a computer processing images via software.

I enjoy the analogue process of dark room photography. Its beautiful. But most people can't tell the difference of the end result. It's cheaper, faster and you'll get the same if not better results to shoot digital.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417439#Comment_118417439

I'm not a professional photographer, but I'm into photography, and have a background in art and design and studied in two colleges in the '90s where I did modules in photography using film and darkrooms. There was something zen about developing your own film and processing your own photographs by hand, but it was very time consuming and my god did the chemicals give me a headache. I can understand how some people would enjoy it as a hobby, but for any professional photographer who's time is money, the shift to digital was an absolute godsend. However, no photographer worth their salt - amature or professional - produces unprocessed digital photographs, so a lot of time is spent now in front of a computer screen processing photos, rather than in a darkroom. And I can fully understand why that's not appealing for some. Sitting here at the comfort of my desk, I have a certain nostalgia for the darkroom, but I'd say after an hour in one I'd be done for another 30 years. And you'd get feck all done in an hour.

It also depends on what kind of photographer you are. For someone doing wedding photography, where they're they could take a thousand photos in a day, digital photography offers major economic and time advantages. For a fine art photographer, where they can work entirely at their own pace, and the process is part of their vision, the darkroom experience could offer irreplaceable advantages. Some press and sport photographers need to send photos back to the commissioning photo desk straight from their camera without even downloading them to anything, so the very idea of film photography would be inconceivable to them nowadays.

As for the OP's iPhone photographer, modern phones are technically impressive, and a lot of the skill in photography is in they eye rather than the gear. But the simple fact is that phones are a compromise in comparison to even the most basic dedicated camera system. I'm not sure that anyone serious about their craft or business would deliberately hobble themselves just to cut down on carrying a bag or two.

I don't really buy any argument that claims film is superior to digital. It’s just a chemical sensor or an electronic sensor. The later is now far, far superior in every way - better dynamic range, colour accuracy, speed and resolution.

The romanticism of film is basically that it causes a nostalgic effect, which is entirely down to it being inaccurate and it can be reproduced digitally.

What you cannot reproduce though is the flexibility and power of large lenses. Cameras in phones are phenomenal devices and their software is absolutely mind blowing in terms of what it can produce, but for artistic shots having complete control over the image and having the ability to change lenses, use more complex lighting and all of those things is a huge deal.

The other big difference is the size of the sensor. A DSLR has a pretty large sensor, comparable to film in scale. That can record a lot more subtly than a smaller sensor and clever software and flat lenses.

humberklog

I make my living as an Artistic Photographer which is different than a Professional Photographer. But I'm in that game. I sell photographic images but I know a lot of Pro's that are in the game of satisfying a client's request.

To rock up with a phone in hand to meet a client for a shoot sounds nuts to me and certainly wouldn't give off a "value for money" vibe.

But, depending on what was needed and if I was happy with their website and I was happy with their price- I'd let them on.

I'd judge them on the results (and only pay if I was happy with those results).

But image is everything. Whether that's the image of a Pro with a phone camera on the job or the images that Pro supplies to the client is another matter.

I'd certainly have a raised eye-brow though and a bit of a chuckle if I'd hired them.

OP what was the gig though? You were kind enough to answer part of my question earlier but not that part.

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413434#Comment_118413434

But you are complaining!

Esse85

Did you read the previous reviews for this persons work?

Sounds like little thought or effort went into researching this photographer.

What rates were you expecting to be charged for this, what was agreed?

Mister Vain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414899#Comment_118414899

That's what I was thinking. I suppose if he ever forgets his phone he can always borrow someone else's.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413434#Comment_118413434

What do you mean when you say 'it didn't cost me anything'? Was this a paid gig or what?

Try showing the photos to a comms or PR professional without mentioning the phone issue and see what they think of the end result.

B.A._Baracus

I see the thread is starting to descend into the usual off topic madness.

Hey op, you did the right thing. Like you hired someone on good faith after seeing his website, soon as he rocked his phone out you also did the right thing by telling him on his bike.

A total chancer.

StupidLikeAFox

How much was he charging out of Curiosity?

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425422#Comment_118425422

Read the thread. It cost him nothing because he didn't use the services of the photographer in the end and got his friends to use their phones.

Quazzie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425507#Comment_118425507

He hired someone to get an end product. When he found out the person was able to produce that using more basic equipment he got hissy and sent him home without ever seeing the end product.

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425964#Comment_118425964

Are you for real?

You're a chancers wet dream lol.

Esse85

Any decent photography person/company I've ever hired always asked for a deposit up front, and rightly too.

Wonder can the OP let us know if he was asked to pay a deposit?

mondeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418287#Comment_118418287

We wanted to create a portfolio of family photos, really nice ones we could print out and hang onto.

mondeo

The agreed price was €175 which includes prints from his own in-house equipment. I guess this meant his printer in his bedroom his mum got him for xmas. No deposit was asked up front, he seemed very laid back which I appreciated at the time. Ye he was a chancer no doubt and he had some testimonials on his website which can be faked quite easily to.