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Why is Dublin such a shιtty city?

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Comments

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 14,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    In Dublin city centre to meet a friend for late lunch yesterday and as I was waiting for the bus on Aston Quay to take me home, I saw three drug deals going down at the bus stop. Very blatant, open and no attempt to keep it discreet.

    Dublin has serious social problems along with most other capital cities - poverty, inequality, drug abuse, crime, casual violence, inter-generational welfare dependency, anti-social behaviour etc. Unlike many other capital cities in Europe, however, the results of these social problems are very visible for all to see in Dublin city centre.

    Since the Covid pandemic and the lockdowns, the lack of regular visitors to the city centre to shop etc has made these problems even more apparent.

    In the week before Christmas, looking to post off a few final Xmas cards at a post office at about 2pm close to my place of work in the inner city, there was a big queue for welfare payments and no-one else apart from me seeming to be using the post office for actual....post. Two of the women queuing there were in their pyjamas.

    I teach urban geography at university level and have a number of academic publications in this area so I think I know a little about the social geography of cities.

    Dublin has always had deep seated social issues that are historical in origin - a century ago, the poverty and tenement slum conditions in the North and parts of the South inner city were so bad the city had a reputation along with Naples for having the worst slums in Europe. The programme of social housing provision between 1925 and 1990 eliminated these slums and housing and health conditions improved vastly for those rehoused, but the social problems and deep inequality remained and were not properly tackled.

    Dublin essentially has historically always been a relatively poor city marked by very high levels of poverty. It is only in the past 30 or so years that the city has become an economic powerhouse on a global level thanks to the Celtic Tiger era. The city is still in many ways playing catch up with other capital cities that have been wealthy for centuries - it still lacks a Metro system which is a huge deficiency in terms of public transport.

    As a child back in the 1980s I well remember rampant begging and anti-social behavior in the city centre. O’Connell Street and its vicinity back then was well on its way in its downward spiral. There may well be a strong bang of weed walking around the inner city these days - but back then every second man seemed to reek of drink.

    If anything, after the drastic cutbacks to the social housing programme in the late 1980s and the gradual replacement of direct provision of social housing by the local authorities towards propping up a whole cohort of low-income households in a mercilessly squeezed private rented sector has been a recipe for disaster for Dublin - and a very wasteful and inefficient use of public exchequer revenue. This is an issue I and others have researched and pointed out in our work over the past 20 or so years - but it has largely fallen on deaf ears by the policy makers.

    Combine the housing shortage with a homelessness crisis - along with a concentration of drug and alcohol “treatment” facilities in Dublin’s inner city, the magnetic pull of the capital to those with drug and life problems from elsewhere - and you have a recipe for the very visible problems we see in the city today.

    The current FF/FG government simply don’t really care about the situation - theirs is a failed neo-liberal/Thatcherite economic ideology harking back to the callous “laissez faire” mindset in the 19th Century where the poor will stay poor - albeit these days supported cradle to grave by a generous welfare system - the middle class are gradually squeezed out of existence (lack of affordable long-term housing options being key here) - and the idea of renting in perpetuity to a REIT/vulture fund is seen as a “necessary evil” by those in power.

    Dublin City Council is currently riddled with gross ineptitude and corruption - and City Manager Owen Keegan has shown us all his condescending, patronizing and frankly callous attitude to the severe housing shortage.

    These problems will continue and worsen until a new government begins to actually heed the advice and recommendations of researchers and agencies working in the field to firefight these issues. Currently the prevailing attitude from on high is to willfully ignore the situation, make half-hearted gestures to be seen to do something, but in reality doing very little as the “Let Them Eat Cake” and “I’m All Right Jack” mentality prevails.

    The governance of Dublin is chaotic and disjointed with four local authorities for the built-up city, another three beyond and an unelected Mayor with no real powers and an unelected and unaccountable City Manager. It is just not good enough and needs radical reform in order for Dublin to be managed and run porperly.

    Post edited by JupiterKid on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Dublin City Managers should live within 1km of their workplace on Wood Quay. See the place in real time rather than on a powerpoint display of orgasmic cycle lane infrastructure. Things would change soon enough, but no.... they get free parking in a city that is awash with cars that the City Manager is actively discouraging, then they escape to the suburbs when the working day is over.

    It is hard to believe that it took a pandemic to open DCC's eyes to the huge benefits of encouraging outdoor dining and socialising. Cork city is a very good example of how that should work, and were miles ahead of Dublin in making it a very popular success.

    On a practical level -

    Clean the streets, powerwash the filth regularly (meaning the residue of fast food, vomit etc. sticking to the streets)

    Fix the pavements, many of which are infill tarred jobs and it looks so cheap and thrown together.

    Open up Westmoreland Street by (sorry.....) cutting down the trees that make the street dark and gloomy. This was proposed as part of some powerpoint presentation a million years ago now, so get on with it.

    Encourage outdoor events and socialising, even in Winter. Other cold European countries can do it, but oh no, not us!

    Close drug treatment centres within 1k of the city centre. I know, I know where do they go? Somewhere will be found that is more suitable for the city. Imagine the SJWs didn't see ANYTHING wrong with an injection centre beside Christ Church, the Four Courts and a primary school. Thankfully that daft idea was knocked on the head, so there are some people with clout that have common sense.

    Visible policing is improving. There is now a joint foot patrol operating between Store Street and Pearse Street stations. Long overdue. Up to that each station was an independent entity and could not even communicate with each other due to different radio bands or something like that. Honestly can you believe it?

    There is a lot to like about Dublin. I love my city but don't like it much, if you get me. It will improve over time and we have to badger the people who make the decisions about the city constantly. I do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,931 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    As a Capital city it's really in the wrong place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,474 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    To where would you move it?

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I think the pandemic is a real factor in how the city looks and feels today.

    It's exposed the issues that where always there but more hidden.

    Problem now is perception. If people perceive a city is not safe it's very bad news.

    The gardai, the justice system are just not up to standard for policing and justice issues in a 21st century city either.

    It's a mix of all sorts of incompetence on so many levels.

    The drug treatment centers have been an epic disaster for the city center too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    i bet he doesn't live beside any or tell any of his "clients "where he lives, easy to be Mr nice guy from a distance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Damn right I don't, I live on my cruiser in Monaco.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,931 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Several places could be a new Capital. Cork, Galway Athlone or with a UI Derry?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,770 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    No, it's perfect. It's far enough away, leave it where it is! Wouldn't want it coming any closer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,474 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    Not your ornery onager



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,931 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,770 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Only when describing that it's far enough away! Dublin is perfect all the way up there away from me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    watchin Joker on TV the other night, i was thinkin Gotham reminded of some place and then it dawned on me..Dublin😐️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    They're all nice guys from a distance. We'll be living beside nuclear power stations in a few decades thanks to the climate change nut jobs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭corner of hells




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,150 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    They managed to bring climate change into it. The Journal commenters are starting to look reasonable compared to boards posters these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    & Galway or Derry as the new capital. Farcical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,931 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,931 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    It's a thread about Dublin.

    Your posts are getting more stupid by the day.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,931 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,474 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,931 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Just making it clearer what I meant. The new state seriously considered moving the Capital to Athlone but the CS shot it down just like decentralization recently. To think it can only be Dubliin in this day and age (Probably a change after a UI) is truly Dublincentric thinking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Decentralisation was tried and failed. None of them wanted to move from the capital and they still don't. Aside from that, building all the infrastructure again in another town is stupid. Airport, docks, government buildings, public transport, housing etc... Dublin City is the capital and always will be. Appointing another capital would be impossibly expensive and a foolish vanity project based on nothing but begrudgery and bitterness. As I said, farcical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,931 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Never really tried at all. The CS went so slow as to made it unworkable. As for 'them' not wanting to move of course they didn't as they were either from Dublin or there so long they forgot where they came from. Dublin is bursting at the seams more building is needed anyway why not elsewhere? It would also be a shot in the arm for whereever it is based. As for Docks? for a Capital..

    Totally an example of Dublin centric thinking that I have encountered there several times in the past.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    They're there so long because their families are in Dublin, their kids, schools, their communities, their GAA clubs, Scout dens, friends, social spheres... So Dublin's bursting at the seams, lets move it all to somewhere that has less housing, less amenities, no airport, no government buildings, no embassies, no public transport, no light rail, no business districts...

    Lets spend trillions upheaving millions of settled families to build a new capital because someone on the internet thinks everything is too Dublin centric. Let's move aras an uachtarain too, and the zoo!

    (feel free to zone in on the zoo to make my argument silly)

    Farcical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,931 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    No need. Just keep building Dublin bigger and bigger is your solution instead of doing it somewhere else. Anyway I'm far from the only one on the internet or in real life who thinks this way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,515 ✭✭✭✭Strumms



    How many countries decided for the craic to move / change capitals ? If it’s been done, why was it ? A handful only

    if you made Limerick ‘the capital’ tomorrow, it would solve none of Dublins problems….none of this country’s problems… aside from cheering a few people up who would be it as ‘one in the eye’ for Dublin. They don’t need a new capital they need lengthy psychological assistance….expensive but cheaper then changing capitals.

    Dublin and it’s surrounding environs are the major urban population centre with proper transport links to support the running of the country.

    if we change the capital to Limerick I want Termonfeckin to become a county in itself… and an airport built in Nobber…

    “ I’m flying into Nobber, has a certain ring to it “.

    ’Nobber International’… you wouldn’t know whether that was an airport or a Eurovision entrant.



  • Posts: 391 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Things I like about Dublin: The aesthetics around Government Buildings, St. Stephen's Green, Dame St., the two cathedrals, Temple Bar, Dublin Castle. I enjoyed showing my wife around those areas, and the tours were excellent. 

    But on the whole I despise Dublin. I wouldn't live there again if you paid me.

    There are a few reasons:

    The predominant Dublin accent and slang sickens me (i.e. the 'Fair City' lilt and deeper shades of the accent, such as you hear in Finglas, Coolock and such. For example "me mo'h" when referring to a girlfriend, or "doortburd" when one reprobate speaks disapprovingly of another reprobate). I find it shockingly brutish. I accept that this is on me and has nothing to do with whether or not Dublin itself is a hole. Still, you could find yourself in a beautifully designed and decorated room, all of which counts for nothing if the room is permeated by a foul odor that won't clear. The accent is a bit like that to me.

    The violent tenor of life in much of working class Dublin. As a student, I lived there at the turn of the century and did some security work at the weekends with a bunch of Dubs who were older than me. They were from Finglas, Coolock, Sheriff St., and places like that. They were not quite the scum of the earth, but the cocktail of the accent, the violence, the hatred of the Gardai, the drink culture, the tricolour tattoos and the rebel songs combined to alienate me completely.

    This isn't a case of me not liking the working man. Down the country I know plenty of working class people; the Dubs were a totally different category. Granted I was an 18 year old from rural Munster coming from a farming background, having up 'til then spent my free time fishing in quiet rivers, walking through the fields and meadows with my friends on long summer evenings; occasionally watching badger or fox cubs play close to large hedgerows at 10 o clock on a June night; sitting under ancient lime and oak trees reading books, and chatting with old country men you'd meet on the roads or at a gate to a field along some tree-lined lane with grass growing in the middle.

    Moving to and working in Dublin was the biggest culture shock I've ever experienced, and I have since lived in the Middle East and India. Dublin was somehow Ireland, yet it resembled nothing -- and I really mean nothing -- of the Ireland that I had known up to that point. And this isn't a case of an innocent country lad moving to the big smoke and getting a land - because I later left Dublin and moved to Cork city and lived there in the city center for eight years and loved it. Cork had none of the sinister vibes that I felt every single day in Dublin. And Cork still felt very much like the Ireland I grew up in. The people were gentler, milder, more soft spoken, more connected with the land on which their city sits.

    The junkies and the general sinister nature of the scobes on the street and on public transport are another factor. Copious numbers of ghouls roaming around in their appalling track-suits with an unmistakably evil, low intelligence look on their faces. I can't fathom people who say you find the same thing everywhere. You absolutely do not.

    Lastly, I would say that the built environment on the whole is bleak, gray and ugly. The rooftops are horrible. (In other European cities, rooftops are generally beautiful and uniform) The streets have almost no trees, or what trees there are (outside of a few well known roads such as Griffith Avenue, North Circular Rd, etc) are just whippy things along grey corridors of misery. It sprawls, too. 

    I apologize if I've offended anyone but this was my lived experience over three bleak years.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 opawaman


    Dublin is my city of birth, the Orphanage was on the south side out past American embassy. Found it last time in Ireland. Spent time in Temple bar and around Central city

    .found people friendly, a lot of Brazilians . Hope to be back later this year. Love my birthplace..



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