Schools to close again.. Covid

amacca · 03-01-2022 01:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410186#Comment_118410186

It's not just principals that are expected to do things that aren't their job in the education system.

rainbowtrout · 03-01-2022 01:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406410#Comment_118406410

IBEC reporting 15-18% absence in food production and retail businesses today. Report is in Irish Times.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/high-levels-of-covid-related-absences-may-put-stress-on-critical-supply-chain-as-16-986-new-cases-reported-1.4767858

am_zarathustra · 03-01-2022 01:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410252#Comment_118410252

Loads of trains cancelled too!

rainbowtrout · 03-01-2022 01:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409455#Comment_118409455

Principals are expected to figure out which are the best filters themselves. Costs vary wildly. No recommendations have been given. I'm sure some parents would be happy to help, but lots wouldn't.

Treppen · 03-01-2022 01:17PM

Is there anything to be said for another cancelled Junior Cycle ted?

rainbowtrout · 03-01-2022 01:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409880#Comment_118409880

Given that the cluster days have been scheduled for January (presume it's similar in other parts of the country) it would have made sense to scheudule them for Thursday and Friday this week. We would still be attending on zoom and kids would stay at home. As it stands ours is next Monday. So we will be open Thursday and Friday and shut again on Monday, reopening Tuesday.

Bobtheman · 03-01-2022 01:36PM

I just find it incredible that with hospitals on their knees no change in terms of closing anything.

I think the government has sat on its hands. Beggars belief.

Bobtheman · 03-01-2022 01:39PM

Nurses union head on rte. She is fed up with government dumping issues back to hospitals. Same with education.

The important thing is their hands are washed.

Bananaleaf · 03-01-2022 01:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410291#Comment_118410291

No doubt about it, that will happen

shesty · 03-01-2022 01:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410233#Comment_118410233

Ah I absolutely know this, and have no issue with it.It is more the set-up where schools are hamstrung by the Department on certain things with a centralised "no this is the way we want it" attitude but on many other things the Department's attitude is "well we aren't taking responsibility for that, that lies with individual schools" and it seems very erroneous as to what falls into what category.It is like a bit of having their cake and eating it too, on the part of the Dept.Historically I suspect it does tie back to having the clergy running the schools (and I have no issue with that -the State failed to step up there), but the reality is that the clergy are a dying breed and no longer have the manpower or the budgets to continue as they were, but the State has not stepped up in the way that it should have, it is still muddling along using the old approaches in many cases.

HerrKuehn · 03-01-2022 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410436#Comment_118410436

The vast majority of primary schools are private, for the most part owned by religious organisations. The state is providing funding to these private schools rather than actually running them.

Treppen · 03-01-2022 02:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410436#Comment_118410436

Most of your prominent politicians went to fee charging schools with ultra religious ethos. It helps with defining "who's one of us" for doing favours.

So orders may be dyibg out but the land isn't, that goes to another religious trust. And allocated according to their ethos etc.

There's still being new schools being built with religious patronage too.

HerrKuehn · 03-01-2022 02:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410655#Comment_118410655

The state will provide the funding to build the school, run the school and pay all salaries, yet the religious order will own it. You couldn't make it up. It would be the equivalent of building an airport on a farmers field that he then owns and tells us how it can be used.

Bobtheman · 03-01-2022 03:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410747#Comment_118410747

A wee bit simplistic . Education trusts own it not the religious orders. The trust would specify that the land must be used for educational purposes.

The trust is set up bt various orders but not run by them. They have lay governance.

Even if the trust wanted to sell its land it would have to be rezoned.

I don't know of a case where the trust booted out a school and got land rezoned. Do you?

The department does not provide enough funding for most schools. Thus the constant fund raising by schools.

Im not an expert on these trusts or composition. Most religious schools have reps from them but they are not a majority on any school board. I can say that with certainity.

Your analogy does not fly unless the farmer created a trust.

Bobtheman · 03-01-2022 03:54PM

Given the educational bullshit generator that is the department of education nobody wants them fully running schools.

Just decent funding.

HerrKuehn · 03-01-2022 04:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411069#Comment_118411069

The religious orders have control and "beneficial ownership" which allows them to run it as they see fit, with the funding coming almost entirely from the government. They have been allowed restrict access based on religious affiliation (which is supposed to end this year). So, I suppose the original point was that the schools are not state schools and that is why the state is not involved in the general running of them.

Bobtheman · 03-01-2022 04:08PM

Again simplistic. The department regulates all schools. The Trust cannot do as it pleases.

There are hundreds of curriculars from the department regulating everything.

Every area of school life is inspected from teaching to the school accounts. They insist on interview panels even though the principal knows who he or she wants to give it to and largely succeeds. Many other examples of farce exist in schools.

The trust owns the land but what does that amount to unless you get land rezoned? You cite no example where a trust did that.

No school can deny a kid an available place in its school on religious grounds.

If its over subscribed it can give Catholic or whatever religion first call.

HerrKuehn · 03-01-2022 04:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411155#Comment_118411155

I am not looking to derail the thread, but the primary educational system in Ireland is provided almost entirely by religious trusts. This is great if you are religious I suppose, but those who aren't maybe don't value the system? I certainly don't want increased funding to the current setup. It should be up to the owners and the parents to provide the additional funding in my opinion.

Your last point is incorrect, that was done away with (ending in 2022) apart from minority religions. I don't see why it should ever have been the case TBH. It is one of the reasons why I don't regard it as "our" school system.

Summer2020 · 03-01-2022 04:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406410#Comment_118406410

And who says there aren't 15% private sector staff out? Family due to stay in a hotel in cavan tomorrow for three nights got a phone call today cancelling as they don't have the staff to run the hotel.

There's mass absenteeism right across the workplace. People can simply say I've a positive antigen test and they get 10 days off with no proof required. It's utter madness

Bobtheman · 03-01-2022 04:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411184#Comment_118411184

I think the religious influence in schools is exaggeratd. At secondary level it's an exam subject. A number of religions examined. Nature of religion.

Hardly objectionable.

At primary preparation for sacraments should be moved out but bar that its not a huge influence.

However bottom line is the Irish education system is badly funded.

The religious issue is a nice distraction for the government. Let's set up secular trusts all over the place but God forbid we properly fund a school.

HerrKuehn · 03-01-2022 04:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411220#Comment_118411220

It depends on your beliefs as to whether it is a large influence in primary school. I imagine most Catholic parents think its just a few prayers. I wonder would they be happy to send their kids to a school with the same level of Islamic influence?

As long as we have this type of system, I think we need to shift costs onto the parents/owners that are supposedly happy with the setup.

am_zarathustra · 03-01-2022 04:35PM

Your feelings about the religious influence will be coloured by your own experience. I'm relatively young, just a decade teaching and I've had some bizarre experiences in religious schools and some very intrusive or overtly religious questions in interviews. I can't speak to primary personally but based on the recent case in Tipp I think, religious interference is alive and well.

But yes. The DOE actually don't want the responsibility of actually running schools, it would distract from the shiny nonsense they are flat out promoting with seconded teacher in an acute hiring crisis. The lack of intervention around COVID is just another example, the public are suprised but no one who works in education is!

I'd forgotten about the jct day nonsense, like honestly......last time we got a puzzle that took 30 seconds to solve (because I am an adult who already knows the information) and had to sit and wait for 20 minutes while we all finished because that's when lunch was ...........I did not wait in fairness but the audacity to think a bunch of adults would is hilarious! I could use 5/6 extra hours with my LCs though

Bobtheman · 03-01-2022 04:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411273#Comment_118411273

I agreed with you up until the end. First fund all schools properly.

Secondly allow parents in a locality to decide what they want. Im not sure how that can be done.

It's very complicated to unravel the system.

Without religious schools we might have skipped a lot of abuse but the vast majority of kids got an education they would not have otherwise got.

We do need a plan for the future. At the moment most teens don't give a **** about religion and should not be going to religious schools.

Even if religion in most of these schools is token.

03-01-2022 04:57PM

I will never vote for, or support, any politician who doesn't condemn the governments handling of this **** show.

It's not fair on students, parents or teachers to be expected to wait around for concrete instruction as to what will happen.

You can bet that the decision has already been made, but for some reason, ever since we had Leo spouting poetry and film quotes, they are treating announcements like X factor results

.... I've got some bad news....... We are in lockdown..... But it's a good lockdown......but pubs will have to close...... But not til 8

It's disgusting.

tom1ie · 03-01-2022 05:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410276#Comment_118410276

That’s absolutely criminal on the part of the DOE.

Why aren’t the principals unions (is there a union specifically for principals?) calling this out?

Why isn’t the media pointing this out either?

HerrKuehn · 03-01-2022 05:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411408#Comment_118411408

I think it is more Public Health that has been the issue. If you remember back to last July when we had the planned opening of restaurants and NPHET were to meet on the Friday to decide whether restaurants could open on the Monday! As if they don't need notice for buying from suppliers. It just shows a complete disregard of the effect the restrictions have on people.

How have we managed to get to the point where over the pandemic we have had some of the highest case numbers and toughest restrictions? The management of the pandemic has all been passive, set rules and hope everyone follows them. It is the easiest to implement of course as once the rules are set, it shifts responsibility onto others. We had restaurants closed for 7 months and we were restricted to within 5 km of our houses for a time last year! In Germany they managed to remain mostly open by having free testing available, this allowed entry into restaurants and bars, the tests were available all over the place, small towns, all over larger cities. We still have very few test centers, often located far outside larger towns requiring people to drive to them, not sure what they expect people who have no car to do. Obviously the issue now is the appointments are difficult to get, but if you go back to October or so and TH was complaining that people were not going for PCR tests. If you want people to act a certain way, make it easy to do so!

rainbowtrout · 03-01-2022 05:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411521#Comment_118411521

Yep. The DOE know exactly how many schools are in the country. They know how many teachers they employ etc. They are more than capable of getting someone who is in the know about filters to make a recommendation, put in a bulk order and distributing them to schools. Instead we have this shitshow.

Can't speak for principal's unions but I would hazard a guess that any principal would tell you that by the time they got anywhere with negotiations, they would have done the research and bought the filters themselves.

Main media outlets in the last number of years have preferred to spend their time teacher bashing. It's not really within their remit to highlight these issues because then it might appear that they are supporting teachers.

Only this summer the Irish Times ran the story 'Teachers can avail of 125 types of leave'. The most clickbaity of clickbait headlines ever.

Not even factually correct either. If I, as a teacher have to bring a group of kids to a football match, my classes are covered by a sub, it's put into the online system under a particular type of cover required so everything is accounted for. It's not leave. I am still working. But the IT makes it sound like we are pissing about the whole time.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/teachers-can-avail-of-125-different-types-of-leave-spending-review-finds-1.4635276

teachinggal123 · 03-01-2022 06:04PM

Anyone looking at RTE 1 news now. Nice timing for that report to be released on the damage caused to children by school closures.

tom1ie · 03-01-2022 06:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411717#Comment_118411717

Well look I sympathise with good teachers trying their best for sure.

As with all things there are a few who let the good teachers down.

I’ve two kids in primary myself and the lockdown teaching was fairly shocking, although marginally improved second time around.

Anyway that’s beside the point, I really don’t understand how the teaching unions aren’t pointing the finger at the DOE and roaring about how teachers, parents and most importantly students have been let down on hepa filters by the department. (I know it’s not just the hepas the DOE have dropped the ball on).

I mean this should be low hanging fruit for the unions.

am_zarathustra · 03-01-2022 07:45PM

The media will just turn on the teaches unions and the teachers, they'll get public support because of the minority of teachers who everyone remembers that colours their view.

The education correspondents need access the department to publish their leaks, the only real news they seem capable of publishing. They won't poison their own well

Schools to close again.. Covid

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