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Schools to close again.. Covid

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭Treppen


    "Omicron causes little to no medical issues in anyone."

    Is COVID over so?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    Interesting to see approaches around the world.

    Delayed by a couple of days to get more hepa filters (on top of 70000 already in the schools) and n95 masks for teachers with free 3 ply medical masks for kids .........

    Norma is doing what now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭Jizique


    A phrase like "acute teacher shortage" suggests 40-50% shortage but the reality is presumably closer to 10%, at most, using data from various hospitals and the guards. I presume there would always be some absence this time of year anyway, even without covid.

    I accept that the odd class may have to be sent home but it seems a bit OTT to close all schools.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,623 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Are the DOE supposed to be organising hepa filters for schools or is down to individual principals to do this or are we being told hepas make no difference?

    Im a parent of two primary school kids and I haven’t heard much information about these filters from the school or department. If it was a case of funds, I think parents would be willing to plug the gap.

    My understanding is it’s about €600 per unit, so if there’s 30 students that’s €20 per parents.

    What’s the official guidance on this? Thanks



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    Most country's are modeling for 25% absense. From my own circles this seems about right. That's a dangerous level of staffing for a school with supervision ect decimated. Insurance may not allow opening, never mind what anyone on the ground thinks can be done. I'd imagine it's more acute at primary, although individual classes can be sent home there.

    It's also not just the covid issue. Like with hospitals, care home ect substitutes are thin on the grlhdn for years, schools have been kept open by good will, mixing classes, favours, DPs, Ps and SNAs in the classrooms and all manner of creative thinking. This is pressure on a system already under massive pressure. I know teachers teaching way outside their subject areas just to keep the show on the road with all the prep that comes with that.

    I'm not suggesting the extra two days as anything other than a way to break the 2 week infection cycle cleanly and then hope it's enough to keep enough staff in schools to keep them open. A small change might make all the difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Exactly, even if a few primary classes can go in, the school should be open. I am sure parents know that they may have the kids home due to the teacher being out. It makes no sense to close the whole school and certainly not to close all schools. Primary cannot be taught remotely and sending on a weekly email with Twinkl exercises is not teaching (this is what happened with both my kid teachers).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭combat14


    govt meeting with unions on tuesday today is a bank holiday

    nphet having own meeting on thursday (after schools return!) ..

    hard to see how schools can return safely without latest health advice given radically deteriorating situation in case numbers over last week..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    If NPHET were concerned I am sure they would have met before schools were planned to open. In fact I would say it was planned to meet on the day schools open to reduce pressure on them to keep the schools closed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Surely we have peaked, now ten days since Christmas so stretching it out for another two and a half weeks (till say 24 Jan) is nuts.

    The biggest problem NPHET (and by extension the govt) now have is the huge number of people who have caught Omicron and who realise it is not the death sentence the zero covid crowd were selling and that the media all latched onto.



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭combat14


    perhaps all kids should be tested before schools open on thursday as they are doing in the uk:


    English secondary pupils to be tested for Covid before term starts

    English secondary pupils are to be tested for Covid at least once before returning to school, the British government has said.

    In a statement announcing the measures, health secretary Sajid Javid said “regular testing is a key way to support schools and protect face-to-face teaching”.

    Ministers have assured schools that testing kits will be provided as needed and urged pupils to test twice weekly, the BBC reports.

    The new on-site testing rules will be limited to England, where pupils will begin returning to schools for the new term later this week.

    In Scotland and Northern Ireland, students are already being asked to test twice a week.

    The Welsh government has asked staff and students to test three times per week before returning to classrooms this term.


    The Gaurdian



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭joe40


    Good article. I believe there should be no further school closures except in the case of widespread collapse of the health system and we are nowhere near that.

    I'm a teacher and I like to think the work I do has a very significant importance in a functioning society.

    Further school closures on top of what already has happened should be considered a tragedy at this stage.

    Obviously I'm talking a few weeks. If thur and Fri this would have any benefit then maybe that could be considered.

    Other countries are further along the omicron wave with lower vaccination numbers. We have guidance in this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Given what happened last year, the 2 days would be regarded by the government as a "Trojan Horse" to keep schools shut (rightly so in my opinion).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    That seems like it would take a very great coordinated campaign, with senior civil servants having to have worked over Christmas holidays. Also cost a few bob.

    Zero chance of it happening here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    Trojan Horse??

    You think the teachers kept schools shut last time? Or unions? Or NPHET?

    I thought the government were in charge of education.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Government wanted to open special schools and had a lot of trouble getting unions to agree to it, so yes I do think teachers prevented schools from opening the last time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    That's where leadership comes in really. Just give a clear indication that it's just to quash a last bit of asymptomatic transfer in the system and hope it buys us time. I'm happy to do the couple of Easter days to make up the time.

    Omicron does look much milder thankfully and our vaccine rates are holding ICU rates at bay for now, there is actually a lot to be positive about, much more so than last year. It even seems to show symptoms sooner, which will really help detection. That two days makes a 4 day extra break. Even from New Years it's 10 days (should be symptomatic or testing positive on an antigen) instead of 5/6 (much less likely).

    But yeah, they probably won't do that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    It's depressing when you read the extent of precautions in others countries. It's not like sending a rake of antigen tests to schools would even logistically be that difficult



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭Framed10


    Could the Dept. just scrap the JCT cluster days coming up? eg we have one in January - needless days lost in current climate.

    All those seconded to JCT would be a valuable asset now to alleviate the shortage of teachers. Any Inspector willing to head back in to the classroom for a few weeks/months!!?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 786 ✭✭✭HazeDoll


    Hah!

    Inspectors are teachers who couldn't hack the classroom. They're hardly going to re-enter the fray now that everything is much harder than it ever was before. We were told when we went back to school in Sept 2020 that some teachers on secondment would be back in classrooms. I don't know of one single case where that happened. In fact, the little twerp who inspected one of my classes in Jan 2020 was back in the school in Oct 2020 - as a covid inspector! In a few short months he went from being an expert in teaching to an expert in the management of infectious diseases! Anything to avoid doing any actual teaching.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭Framed10


    Of course no Inspector is going to want to go back in to the classroom and the Dept. won't even go down the road I'm sure but......

    In saying that there have been incidental inspections in Oct / Nov!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    The inspectorate have lost any and all respect in this climate. Secondments should have been revoked and any available teacher should be back in the class.

    .....but you are both completely right about the type of people generally in there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    I know this just a small thing, but it would be €20 per child that a parent has in school.

    Again, besides the point I know, but it shouldn't be a funding issue. There are far less deserving recipients of state money - parents shouldn't have to be going into their pocket for this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭combat14


    Looks like covid hospital numbers are up 74% in a week according to latest figures and we haven't seen true extent of festive season mixing yet - surely makes sense to wait for kids to get their booster vaccines first before sending hundreds of thousands of kids back to school and college ..?


    The number of people with Covid-19 in hospitals has risen to 804, an increase of 87 compared to the same time yesterday morning.

    This day last week there were 461 people in hospital with Covid-19.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0103/1269600-covid-figures/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    Schools were given a small amount of funding not nearly sufficient, but procurement is a nightmare, it would be far more efficient to do it centrally and would save money. It's just a way of saying they are doing something without actually doing anything! Finding money like that will be easier in some schools, other schools would really struggle. Again, it would be papering over the cracks caused by the DOE, who literally never get called out.

    We don't have a huge amount of modelling with omicron, hard to know what effect masks, ventilation ECT will have with something so transmissible. Endemic status might be the best case scenario now really, provided it remains a mild dose as the initial studied suggest

    Edit..the only sensible article I read on the topic

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/people/arid-40767153.html



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    What do you do with kids who have just had covid.....they needlessly stay out of school a minimum of 4 weeks just to satisfy this??



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Actually makes me see red.The ability of the DOE to deliberately go out of its way to wash its hands of situations like this, devolve all responsibility to Principals,is infuriating.I am not a teacher but jesus, they infuriate me.They need to be dragged into 2022, this is not the 1960s where a local parish priest organises whip rounds and maintains buildings that way.The clergy are gone for the most part and the Dept need to man up and take full responsibility.This "but we always do it this way" attitude is beyond backwards.

    I will never forget my aunt becoming a principal and spending a week on the phone to me learning about tender and construction processes because the school needed new drains in a yard and the caretaker was taking her step by step through how the flat roof in the school needed repairing.She needed surveys of the yard organsied (I am an engineer). She was a quick learner and did her best but that should not be her job.It infuriated me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    Schools run anyway, that's the problem! Everyone has a random opinion about schools based on the fact they went to one and their Irish teacher was mean or whatever. We produce generally good teachers, thanks to a history of education being valued, and they sort of just figure it out on the ground day by day. Even the articles around the Rapporteur for Children are telling, kids left in domestic violence situation, no access to food, lack of personal care.......this is not the job of schools, it's Tusla, the gaurds and social protection but closing schools is the issue 🙄

    It's like they think kids aren't traumatised going home to this after being in school. Schools are there to educate, obviously the people attracted to it are generally caring and won't be able to help empathizing with the students but to lay the failures of the state in protecting our children on school closures is a weak arguement. Maybe that time could be spent disbanding tusla and just starting again.



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