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Walking on your land

13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo


    You may think I might say that but I wouldn't. I have met people that had their houses destroyed by floods and fires and have had everything replaced by house insurance. If they had no insurance they'd have a life-altering financial loss.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,231 ✭✭✭ Mooooo


    Know a man whos house burned down, no insurance. In a tight bind now



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,562 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    That's fine, but you might work in insurance or some other job that would bring you into contact with this tiny group of people, for all I know. Neither of my paents ever new anyone who suffered a house loss, no one I have known over the course of my life has suffered a house loss. I couldn't find the stats for ireland, but for the UK, house fires would appear to effect 0.6% of dwellings in a given year.

    That's a punt I'm willing to take. Flooding isn't a prospect.

    I'm not suggesting you or anyone else not have home insurance. I personally decided it's not worth the cost and that the risks are minuscule.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo


    Nope, I don't work in insurance, I just know a lot of people, have a broad social & family group & have lived in a few different places. My own house was flooded in the city centre along with all my neighbours. The ones that didn't have insurance suffered massive financial losses, another friend (farmer) had their house very very badly damaged with frost and snow (house still isn't right after decades), another friend from work had everything in his house destroyed by smoke from an electrical fault and one more I know from sports had a house fire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,562 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    Each to their own, as they say.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭ green daries




  • Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭ green daries


    I have and quite a few of them your not going to get much by the way of investment for 350/400 EURO per year



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    i would say nothing but the very next day i would get a large PRIVATE PROPERTY sign...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo


    Have to say, over years of canoeing the inland waterways & rivers and camping along the way, I've never been refused permission to camp by a farmer. Even before they were navigable and were were shooting rapids and weirs we were met with interest and welcomed, even offered dinner & space to park the car on a few occasions.

    We always asked permission though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    I agree with you entirely if there is an attraction it needs be open... that's different to a stranger wandering through property... i have hares and pheasants here but i do not tell anyone... i am not anti-hunting as long as its food... I do not tell people they are here so they not be coming around... There are also badgers... are they bad for disease as some people say...



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,562 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    Funny you should mention me and my dog - which I don't happen to have - but someone dropped several over the fence of a property I lease the grazing of and 54 sheep were slaughtered or had to be put down. But thanks for the suggestian that I might be the sort of person to do something like that.

    Foolish, that's me all right - what posessed my to empty a bank account to buy bitcoin in 2016 and still have it, is beyond me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,333 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    About as much legal standing as putting up a plastic Santy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,599 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump



    If that attraction is a registered monument then it's illegal for the metal detector lads to be near it. I wouldn't be letting them in if that was the case and it was me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    It takes away the duty of care to trespassars..



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ Dinzee Conlee


    Was a good move on the bitcoin, but a lot depends on how much was in the bank account in 2016 😀

    Still, you're about 50 times up I would guess. Not bad in 5 years...

    As a matter of interest, do you have a number at which you'll sell at?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    Nah they wouldn't go near that at all .Remember as a kid heading down with a spade to look for "buried treasure " .

    Still looking .



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    Not really as your duty of care to trespassers is as Bass Reeves stated earlier in the thread .



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    Never mentioned "your " dog but anyways .

    You graze sheep on leased land and have no insurance ? Smart move .Or perhaps you meant that you just don't bother with house insurance but have public liability etc etc on the farming enterprise ?


    Actually why would you bother with sheep if you have made all that money with bitcoin ? Know they would be gone here in a flash if I ever strike it big with the 6 numbers .



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    I think private property with a gate means no claim will come...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    Not really .Trespassers have a very very limited cover .Really as long as you don't intentionally harm them then its on their own head .Someone mentioned 3 categories earlier .Think thats trespassers ,invited people and then children under (?) .

    A gate will hardly stop a trespasser .



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    I am talking about liability for injury... i actually do not know but its my gut feeling...



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,361 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    I think it Guests, uninvited guests and recreational users who are treated as uninvited guests. U16's are excluded from the he legislation

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,599 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump



    Three categories under the statute:

    1) Visitor

    2) Recreational user

    3) Trespasser

    The second category does not strictly have to have owners permission and has a slightly higher duty of care than trespasser. The people coming to visit the monument in your case would most likely be in category 2. Note that, technically speaking, permission can be implied - even for what you might otherwise consider to be a trespasser.

    All the above pertains only to the physical state of the property. The statute replaced old common law for examples where that is the case. If the matter at hand is related to an activity for example, it does not come under the statute and is still under the old common law.


    Edit: Just on Bass's point about age, as far as I am aware age, age has nothing to do with the statute. It may affect how the statute is interpreted or applied but it is not in the statute itself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    Thought there were 3 different types alright but couldn't remember what they were .

    Wonder if shooters are trespassers or recreational users ?

    Suppose it depends on whether you gave them permission or not .



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,361 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    If I was U30 again I would seriously consider putting health insurance into an investment account, especially if your family has a fairly good health history.

    All insurance companies take a margin However in the case of house insurance the financial risk outweighs the premium as a serious incident is a life changing experience. I know of an incident about 20 miles away where a shed of straw in went up in flames, it did serious damage to the house some machinery parked adjacent to it as well as a milking parlour. Total cost will probably be in the 3-500k mark.

    I myself have had a roof go off a round barn hay shed and a garage 40+ years ago. A person that my wife knows had a house go on fire. There was an incident locally where a women who likes her GnT's had a serious house fire but no insurance. There was a fundraiser, I deliberately avoided and I go to most fundraisers. I actually went to the Tractor run that was twenty miles away because even though he had insurance I know well he will struggle to get full costs back from.the insurance company.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,599 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump



    They could possibly be still classified as recreational users even if you did not explicitly give them permission. I am not aware of any examples.

    From the Act:

    “recreational user” means an entrant who, with or without the occupier's permission or at the occupier's implied invitation, is present on premises without a charge (other than a reasonable charge in respect of the cost of providing vehicle parking facilities) being imposed for the purpose of engaging in a recreational activity

    I would think that that would a scenario where having signs up might work in your favour. You can always exclude your duty of care towards the visitor category (but not absolutely - you basically can just downgrade it)



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,562 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    You misunderstand, I own the property and lease the grazing to someone else. It's up to them to carry insurance to cover their activities. The house on the property was insured for years, but then the insurance broker said the insurers would no longer insure it for 350 punts due to it being unattended most of the time and wanted more than double, so that was the end of the insuring it. 20 uears later and have saved close to €18,000.

    I don't have a mortgage on my house, so if it burnt to the ground I could move to my other property and freeze in winter. A 0.6% risk is one I'll take.

    Not for this reason, but I am planning to sell up and move to NZ, where coincidentally, there is currently no CGT, or several other taxes Ireland has. It's not so much a sell at price as a not while I am living here price.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    But if you are the landowner you also have potential for problems .Easy enough for a tenant to wash his hands of responsibility in certain cases .Relying on the tenant and his insurance to totally absolve you of any liability is not exactly sharp but then again I suppose you must have saved loads of money over the years .

    An unoccupied house is a slightly different proposition as I initially understood you were living in the house .Probably not really worth insuring if idle 20 plus years .



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