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Formula 1 Round 22 Abu Dhabi GP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,887 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Of course it is. Had Hamilton decided to go on fresh tires earlier the safety car is largely irrelevant. He chose not to do that to stay away from Max.

    Safety cars are known entities that strategies are built around. It doesn’t automatically hand the race to the driver behind you.

    If you want to have races without any strategy or incident at all then why don’t we just have teams do a few practice laps and then AWS can tell us who the race winner will be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,887 ✭✭✭McFly85


    I’ve heard multiple times that apparently anything up to this point doesn’t matter, this is what decided the championship. Convenient nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Look, I don’t watch F1 so not really up to speed, but watching that race the weekend it’s obvious the sport is broken.

    my comment about safety cars was just a quick thought.

    the most exciting things going in that race was TOTO crying on the radio like a baby, and whatever else was going on around the track bar the racing itself.

    its obvious something needs to be done, but how the race finished was a joke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    OK, regardless of the finish on Sunday do you accept that earlier in the season Hamilton made huge gains in similar circumstances when there was a crash involving other cars. And that if the rules were more aligned with your thinking, then the last lap on Sunday would have been irrelevent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    They used to do that, but people found aggregate racing too confusing... See Suzuka 1994 for an an example.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    I didn’t watch the earlier season, as I said I haven’t watched it for many years.

    that very well may be the truth?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Eh its actually what happened. Your making a judgement on 6 laps of Race 22. If your logic applied, Max carries a 12 point lead into Sundays race. So that last lap under green is irrelevant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Yea that’s great?

    can you not see how the whole end of that race was a farce, regardless of what happened in the rest of the season?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    No I don't. Safety cars are part of the sport. What exactly was a farce, that the race director got the race back underway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,686 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    No. As far as I've seen, you're the only one to bring up racism in this whole issue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    That the race director just decided whatever he wanted?

    nobody knew what was happening.

    the commentators were shocked when the safety came in when it did.

    the other points in the season where you say Hamilton gained an advantage were rules and procedures followed or was discretion applied?

    nobody knew if cars were gonna unlap themselves,

    nobody knew if the safety car would come in.

    why did Masi decide it was only first and second that could fight and why didn’t he let 3rd place close up?

    did he make a mockery of the rules in all the other races throughout the year?

    a lot of issues there, anyway I don’t have the knowledge of F1 and the season to be really debating it.

    i may be wrong I may not be.

    just from watching that it was a bit ridiculous that the top tier in motorsport racing can end in a sh*tshow like that.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    The race director got the race underway at the first opportunity. That's his job. Once it's safe to race, bring the SC in. That's what happened.


    What the commentators think is irrelevant.


    You can't complain about something you clearly know fcuk all about. Drivers all the last few weeks when asked about the title race kept saying they didn't want to get involved.


    Michael Masi is the race director. He has the discretion to make decisions in order to get the race back under way. That's what he did. So no he didn't make a mockery of the rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,686 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    The decision to only clear the cars between max and Lewis wasn't about getting the green flag. That decision was very unusual and it was all about the drama.

    I'm happy with the outcome as I was supporting Max, but I think you need to acknowledge that the decision to only clear the cars between max and Lewis was all about showbiz. If it was all about getting the race underway and finishing under green flag, then not clearing any cars would have been simpler and faster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Maybe, maybe not. But when other drivers have spent weeks saying they don't want to get involved in the title race, what difference does it make. Lando was even speaking about being scared to be so close to the front after Quali on the Saturday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    So there are no rules then basically?

    whatever the race director says is what happens.

    it was a sh*tshow relying on pitlane drama , Toto crying and the drama of not knowing what the race director is gonna do to make it exciting.

    anything bar the racing itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,686 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    What's the other driver's attitude got to do with anything?

    If it was just about getting back to green flag, as you said it was, then why did they only clear the cars between max and Lewis?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,686 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    It was a combination of serendipitous crash and the need for safety car, manufactured drama AND racing. I don't think it was about "anything bar the racing itself".

    There are rules and procedures. It turns out the race director can override the rules if they want to. I certainly didn't know that and I think most others didn't know that either. It almost never comes up. But it came up in this instance and it resulted in the most dramatic finish to the season finale in decades



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,652 ✭✭✭tanko


    The last lap of the race was one of the most exciting sporting moments of all time, it will be remembered for decades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    That’s a bit of a stretch ,

    “sporting moments of all time”

    maybe

    “manufactured sporting moments of all time”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,686 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    It was a greats sports event. It had an element of manufacturing in it but I'm fine with how it worked out. Once the safety car was needed there were no options that wouldn't have amounted to manufactured drama, except for finishing the race under the safety car which would have been an intervention in itself.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Well the safety car would have been an intervention within the rules, I just can’t get my head around the race director making stuff up.

    maybe they will learn something from it .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,686 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I'd say they learned it was the most exciting finale in years and it got more international coverage than any finale in decades.

    It was an extraordinary set of circumstances. I doubt they'll be trying to manufacture these scenarios from nothing. They just took advantage of the situation that arose. I doubt there's a lot more to learn from it than that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,653 ✭✭✭Harika


    Overall it's Toto's fault. He could have told bottas at the restart to park the car in the middle of the track. Safety car cannot end, Lewis is champion. Multi 21 ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭glen123


    Schumacher parked his car in Monaco during qualifying. That didn't end well at all for him. They can check telemetry to see what really happened to the car so just stopping for no reason isn't an option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    What if Bottas was to stop the car cause of a crippling migraine and he couldnt go on?

    Surely there’s nothing that could be done in that case



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,406 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    Will ya just stop, Max is champion and absolutely fully deserved. End of discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭quokula


    It's perfectly normal for lapped cars to be let past (in fact it would be completely unprecedented if they weren't)

    It's perfectly normal for the safety car to be called in once the track is clear.

    Everybody fully expected these two things to happen once the crash occurred, this is why Red Bull pitted immediately and Hamilton was so distraught on the radio.

    The only abnormal thing was the strange delay in letting the lapped cars past.

    Latifi crashed on lap 53. The car was clear on lap 55 and on lap 56 the last of the marshalls who were clearing up some off track debris returned behind the barriers. Lapped cars don't immediately get up to racing speed when they are let past the safety car, they are told to maintain an appropriate speed. It is safe for them to be allowed past once the blockage is clear, even if there are some marshalls cleaning up the last of the debris, as this would be treated like a VSC. This is why on lap 55 Lewis Hamilton's race engineer got on the radio and told him the lapped cars are about to be let past, as he was expecting normal procedure to be followed. This is why Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso, two experienced world champions with no affiliation to either Mercedes or Red Bull, both got on the radio to their teams asking why lapped cars weren't being allowed past like they normally are.

    When the FIA announced out of the blue that they were taking the unprecedented step of not allowing lapped cars to pass Alonso (who was one of the lapped cars and is entirely unaffiliated to the two teams fighting for the title) literally laughed upon hearing the announcement and said they're keeping Max behind him when he should be in front of him.

    Who knows what the reason was for that initial plan to go against all precedent and not allow lapped cars to pass. It was safe when the car was clear on lap 55 and multiple drivers were on the radio wondering why it wasn't happening, then it was even more safe on lap 56 when the marshalls had all left the run off area entirely. However, they didn't do this, until they eventually changed their minds and decided to apply the normal rules on lap 57 and let the lapped cars through. This meant that they had to compress things somewhat and have less of a gap between letting the lapped cars through and pulling the safety car in than they normally would, but this ultimately had zero impact on the outcome.

    Not allowing the lapped cars past would have gone against all precedent. Not finishing the race under green flags when it's a 58 lap race and the blockage is completely clear on lap 56 would have gone against basic common sense in addition to going against the regulations that state that the race will be started when the clerk of the course deems the track safe. It would also have gone against a previous agreement among all teams that ending under a green flag should always be the priority call if it is safe to do so.

    The only minor hiccup was the delay in letting the lapped cars through, but if they'd been allowed through a lap earlier when they should have been it would have had zero impact. A lot of the controversy on Sky was really just manufactured because their man lost. Safety cars are a part of F1. When a car crashes and stops on the racing line you absolutely expect a safety car, you expect the backmarkers to be cleared like normal, and you expect a return to racing if the incident is entirely clear two laps before the end of the race. Red Bull expected all of this, made the correct tactical choices, and Max executed perfectly with a superb overtake when the race restarted. It's as simple as that.

    Max got lucky that Latifi crashed when he did certainly. It gave him an opportunity to gain 7 points (but only if he and the team executed on it perfectly, which they did). Lewis has gained more points than that from previous similar situations this season and if you managed to come up with some system that eliminated all possible advantages or disadvantages from safety cars and red flags and found a way to retroactively apply it across the whole season, Max would still be champion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,755 ✭✭✭Bigus


    Well said,

    I wonder how the non British motorsport commentators press have been reacting? I think it’s really a mainly British upset.

    I’d say if it was Nico Rosberg in the Mercedes the Brits wouldn’t be a fraction as apoplectic as they are .

    Also I’m a former racer and a veteran of watching F1 for approaching 50 years , my point of almost throwing in the towel as a modern F1 fan, was when Hamilton didn’t get a full race ban and points on his licence after knowingly nearly killing Verstappen at Stowe corner in silverstone. This was the real let down this year, particularly as a neutral. If that incident hadn’t have happened at his home race the penalty would have been very different.

    On Abu Dabi, people seem to forget that Max still had a lot to do from behind, against the Faster Merc, with that experienced driver ahead , in the narrowest of windows and under severe scrutiny,.

    I for one was glad to see it unfold old style on track ! Notwithstanding Max nearly binning it coming onto the finishing straight within sight of the flag !!! Just like the Saudi qualifying mistake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    There are rules and they were followed. The race director used his discretion to get the last lap under green flag, something which all teams agreed beforehand would be preferable.


    The race director wouldn't have such a decision to make if Latifi didn't bin it



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    MAYBE time. Maybe there was a need to make the safety car in decision by the time it reaches a certain point on the track otherwise the race finishes under SC and that was not what the teams wanted by all accounts.

    Other drivers have made statements about not wanting to get involved in the championship battle. So maybe that played a part in the decision that. Who knows



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