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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    Well, I assume he knew in advance that there'd be violence and planned to use the National Guard on Trump's orders to protect the rioters. So much for a peaceful planned protest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    That's if he gets the chance to respond. I hope his bone spurs don't get in the way of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Trump zealots will argue that he didn't know that there was going to be riots. That's nonsense of course, but they'll argue it nonetheless.

    However, when it all became clear what was happening, when McCarthy rang Trump to tell him to do something, when other tried to do the same and Trump did nothing for far too long, then made a mealy mouthed video that looked like a hostage video, *that's* when there can be no excuse.

    It's no one else's fault, no one else would be listened to.

    The more details that come out, the harder it will be to swallow that Trump let this happen, and that is why he and the rest of the GOP are fighting so hard to stop the information from becoming public.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Just goes to show how disfunctional the trump family are when Jr can't even contact his dad directly and has to go through his COS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    I don't think it actually matters in the long run, at least when it comes to the GOP's devotion to Trump. They'll find someone else to blame, the base voter will swallow it and they'll move forward with him in 2024. While the US showed that it's electoral institutions are strong in the last election, their justice/investigative system is a shambles. Trump will continue to obstruct everything that the Select Committee tries to do and tie them up in endless appeals. There'll never be any justice, mostly because everything over there takes so damn long.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    If you knew Don Jr had your mobile number you would block his number as well.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    What is becoming abundantly clear is the overall shape of the Trump plan to overthrow the result.

    Now that we've seen the PowerPoint and all the other pieces , it's clear that after the abject failure of the 60+ court cases they were looking at the actual coup pathway.

    The plan was obviously to organise the demonstration in Washington and get them all hyped up with the hope that there would be some kind of counter demonstration from BLM or whomever to create the spark initiating violence.

    They'd then call in the National Guard who would be directed to target the "Anti-Trump" side giving Trump and right-wing TV the footage of "Socialist Rioters getting baton charged" that they wanted and also giving Trump the excuse/justification to declare some kind of "National Emergency" and suspending Congress until "things got under control".

    He would then use the delay to hype up the "attacks on honest American Patriots who just want Justice and Fairness" as the leverage to get Pence et al to follow through on the bullsh!t Eastman plan for overturning the election.

    However , the other side never turned up so they now had this feral, riled up crowd with no one to fight.

    Then they headed for the Capitol building.

    We can now also begin to understand the reasons why the National Guard didn't turn up for so long - They didn't want the footage to be of Trump supporters fighting with the Guard, but they were ok with it being the "Pelosi Capitol Police" and the local "Democrat controlled DC Police" as they thought they could spin that in their favour.

    But things got a lot worse than I suspect they ever thought they would as evidenced by the flurry of texts trying to get Trump to intercede.

    US Democracy may forever be thankful for the fact that BLM et al decided to stay at home on January 6th.

    Bottom Line - It was a coordinated attempt to over-turn the election by any means necessary and Trump and his inner circle need to be held accountable for those crimes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭Dillonb3


    I'd say the revelations with the texts involving Fox Hosts is what convinced Chris Wallace to leave Fox for CNN+. Surprised he didn't leave sooner



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,178 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    It's not going to change a thing with his Klan. They will dismiss the powerpoint presentation as fake (I know little about it. How verified it is). But even if there was 99.999% conclusive proof that it was really what it claimed to be then they would still say there was doubt. The texts. Also fake.

    You have to remember, his klan are not rational people when it comes to him. There has been AMPLE evidence displayed, even within this thread to Trump's corruption and attempts to steal the election. Each and every single point is either ignored or claimed to be fake/taken out of context. Similarly, every bit of evidence presented that there was mass corruption/attempts to steal the election by the democrats has been PROVEN to be known lies. But again, this counterevidence is ignored/rejected.

    Usually there are two sides to a story.... Not here. As evidence has proven. But it will simply be ignored/rejected. Watch



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Three Republican residents of The Villages arrested for casting multiple 2020 votes


    Guess they found the fraud.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It really doesn't matter. As you say, Trump's true believers will never accept any amount of empirical evidence that the man is a liar and a crook who has no respect for the established democratic systems and laws of the United States. But the bigger news is that even if you entered some crazy alternate universe were they would accept the evidence, they still wouldn't care. They worship Trump so much that subverting or ignoring the U.S. constitution or ignoring electoral laws or ignoring judicial rulings or ignoring the concept of the peaceful transition of power are acceptable things if they allow Trump to retain/regain power. They will distort their perceptions of reality or justice to any extent in order to maintain their one consistent principle: that Trump must be president.

    And when you get to that level, it's no longer a political discussion because you cannot play the game of politics where the sides involved are not willing to respect the same set of rules. When you tear up the rule book, what do you have? You have a fight. War is what happens when diplomacy breaks down, i.e. when talking is no longer a satisfactory means to resolve a dispute. And we are seeing diplomacy between the sides in the U.S. breaking down. Refusing to respect the same set of rules is a form of soft force, and the Capitol invasion burgeoned into actual force, albeit unorganised and chaotic. But that idea has become normalised. One half of America has rationalised that incident to themselves, and the only thing left is how it's done again, with more success.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭dinorebel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    The thing I don't get is why Trump is seemingly so attractive to a large percentage of the US population. He's not good looking. He mumbles and is incoherent when he speaks. He clearly isn't a man of the people. He's an obvious and beyond-doubt serial liar. He didn't deliver on campaign promises. His actions during the pandemic cost lives. He lost the House, Senate and White House within 4 years and got impeached twice. He made America a laughing stock on the world stage. Yet, he's still madly popular with Republican voters. What is it about this man that people find so appealing? Genuine question.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Because he owns the libs and tells it like it is.



    Supposedly

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Trump's SPAC, despite murky finances, plans, minimal revenue goals, has been valued (based on stock price) at something like $11bn.

    Revenue projection for the first year is $1million, so that's a P/E of what, 11000? Just insane, and there are going to be some very unhappy investors once the dust settles on this grift. Impressive grift though. Probably P/E is the wrong metric, but valuation to revenue is absurd. This is like the late 90's .com boom only worse, even VA research peaked at 400% over it's IPO price. Was nice to have a few shares back then and I think after a couple months the company, who had no real revenue, was gone.


    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/14/investing/trump-spac-dwac/index.html



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,438 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    It’s because he takes no responsibility for his actions, there is always someone else to blame. They like that because they feel that in a changing world they are being left behind and need someone to blame.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭✭briany


    In a world where moral equivocation is now seemingly endless, at least some of his supporters might say, "Yeah, Trump's bad, but he's not as bad as Biden/Hillary/Obama/those crooked Democrats.". That'd be one thing, but despite saying Trump's bad, he's not quite bad enough not to vote for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    This was a good recap of the origins of the steele dossier in this pod


    Explains, amongst other things, how the dossier was conflated deliberately by the GOP in order to attack the Mueller report...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Another *checks notes* Trump appointed judge rules against him..





  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Something I've noticed with the release of all these text messages to/from Mark Meadows.

    They are withholding the names of Members of Congress who sent mails , but publishing the names of others.

    So we know that Don Jr , Ingraham , Hannity etc. sent texts but for others it's just "Unnamed member of congress" and so on.

    Does anyone know why that is exactly , why do they get anonymity but Hannity et al don't?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Judge McFadden, appointed by then-President Trump, throws out Mr. Trump’s bid to block IRS disclosure of his tax returns to the U.S. House


    Must be in the deep state?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Trump's accountant, Donald Bender, has been handling Trump Org's taxes and financials for decades. He resisted handing over records - forcing Manhattan DA to go to the Supreme Court.


    Today we found out that Bender recently testified about Trump before a Manhattan grand jury.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,710 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,302 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Some, because they have 'win at all costs' political allegiances and are firmly within the Republican fold and so they are fully behind whoever from their party they think is likely to give them the victory they deserve.

    Some, simply because they find him entertaining.

    Some, because they hate the establishment so much and they have a feeling that they have abandoned by 'the man', 'the system', 'the swamp' or whatever and so when someone comes along and expresses hatred for Washington and what it stands for, they automatically assume that he is for them.

    Some because their religious leaders have told them that he is their guy.

    Some because they could not care less about anyone who isn't them or directly related to them right now and so whether it be poor people, or immigrants, or future generations, they don't want to have to adjust their behaviours or desires one bit in order to help them and they know Trump won't ask them to.

    Many because Fox News has told them to. Saw a tweet earlier that said that Fox knows that if they don't tell their audience that their lead anchors all held Trump responsible for what happened on Jan 6th and that it was a very bad thing, they're never going to find out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    One explanation I read this morning is that the committee are waiting to see who will issue a pre-emptive denial. McConnell has already issued a denial and others will surely follow. So those who did send the messages will either not issue a denial and reveal it was them by a process of elimination or they will issue a denial and then the committee can then say they are lying.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Seems an odd approach to take.

    I was wondering if there was some "Parliamentary Privilege" type of thing involved.

    Just go ahead and name them - running out of time to be playing silly buggers with trying to catch these people out in a lie.

    Everybody knows they lied already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,477 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I have to agree. I can somewhat see the reasoning behind it in terms of what ohnonotgmail said (which was my own assumption too) and also possibly so as not to release too many names at once, to allow for people to condemn Fox presenters, Don Jr. etc in one batch and then politicians in another batch whereas all names released at once could cause some to be lost in the mix.

    But the clock is ticking and the longer it drags out, the less effective it'll be. Besides which, any politician who does lie about Trump texts and then is proved to be lying.... it's not going to matter to people anyway. Their supporters will continue to support them regardless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    the committee doesn't care about trump supporters. it knows it can't reach them. this is for the benefit of voters in the middle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,477 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    That's certainly true too. I just meant those politicians won't care about being proven to have lied or be hypocritical. Most of the ones who would be trying to engage with Trump directly on Jan 6th would be those who everyone knows are deep with Trump anyway. Voters in the middle are unlikely to be swayed either way as they already know what such politicians are like.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭PropJoe10




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Tiffany tried ringing Trump Snr, but he didn't answer as he didn't recognise the number...



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It really does say a lot about the family dynamics that his son didn't feel like he could call his father directly about this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 794 ✭✭✭phater phagan


    I think the reason why Trump has been let off the hook, on so many illegal acts, is because there are about 20 million of his supporters who advocate civil war to keep him in power.

    The Republicans are terrified of him - a bit like being a neighbour of Tony Soprano's. They know that he can, with a word, threaten them and their families. They have created the monster, and now he has control over their lives.

    The Democrats also fear him; and their concerns are the prospect of civil war. I'd wager that the vast majority of Trump's brigades are owners of multiple firearms etc. The US armed forces in total are just over 2 million with about 1.4 million of them on active duty. Trump would have no compulsion about calling his many millions of Trumpists to arms. It is a dreadful prospect, but a plausible one.

    The only way that the US would be safe from him is that if he dies before 2024.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Joe Biden said during one of the presidential debates that Donald Trump shouldn't remain President of the US because of how many covid deaths there were under his watch (220,000 at the time). But there have been far more deaths under Biden. So should Biden hold himself to his own standard and resign? The issue isn't what Trump did wrong, or what Biden did wrong, it's a simple yes or no question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,438 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    No



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    That would indeed be the cleanest "out" and I'd say the majority of the GOP wouldn't be sorry either. It'd have to happen in public though, because otherwise the conspiracy theories about him being bumped off by the Clintons/Biden/Democrats would overwhelm the whole country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    No matter what those theories will happen. No matter how long he lives for. That support won't accept that the perfect specimen of man could die and many have decided he is the perfect man. The only exception would be if he died in power having named his successor.


    The GOP would love it since they could invoke his name without Trump saying something new and stupid and hold him up as a martyr.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,302 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The Republicans are terrified of him 

    I'm not as quick to give them a pass. They created the monster through wanting his 74M voters to stay onside, but more so for future elections as because he would incite violence.

    The Republican party big hitters could easily have denounced his undermining of democratic elections and appeared as being staunch supporters of the constitution, which would have appealed to these same voters, from November 7th onward last year. But they didn't, they went full in behind him so that there would be no campaign advertisement claiming that they didn't.

    I actually believe many Republicans wouldn't mind increased rhetoric about civil war (not saying a significant number actually want to see violence, but talking about it, they'd definitely be ok with that). It would put to bed the argument about the Second Amendment for the rest of their lives, it would embolden their fan base and they'd probably think that it would force congress and the Democrats to be more conciliatory towards them.

    History will judge the party and the selfish needs of their key members very harshly if Trump is indeed elected in 2024.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    If Trump gets elected in 2024 the only people the democrats will have to blame are themselves. They'd an overwhelming majority of actual votes in 2024, they should not find themselves in a situation were these get lost to the very person who didn't get them the first time.


    And I don't think they will. I can't see Trump winning in 2024.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 794 ✭✭✭phater phagan


    Yes I agree that the Dems are the majority party; however, unless they can pass the voting rights bill it won't matter.

    The electoral college may very well be changed with the swing states electors supplanted by Trump supporters. It is already happening in Georgia and five or six other states; with Trump supporters using a scheme whereby they can legally use their majority Republican representations to replace the more reasonable electors. Perdue, who's running for governor in Georgia, stated that he would install Trump, if the same thing were to happen in 2024 as in 2020.

    The secretary of state for Georgia, Raffensberger, whom Trump has vilified, also said that the will vote for Trump if he runs in 2024.

    If America was a true democracy people like Trump, or even G.W. Bush, would not have become presidents.

    The electoral college will never be decommissioned, and the Senate filibuster will not change. For instance, California with 40 million people has two senators and 15 Republican leaning states with a similar population has 30 senators. That is the problem. It is not a country of the people for the people, by the people, as they so often state.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I don't think it's any secret that people like McConnell would love to see the back of Donald Trump.

    Beyond the MTG/Gosar/Gaetz et al fringe most of the GOP would be perfectly happy to see him gone but they are far too chicken to do it themselves.

    They are terrified of getting Primaried by a MAGA supporting Candidate.

    The ideal scenario for them is for Trump to get "taken out" by one of the many legal proceedings he is currently embroiled in - whether that's the House investigation or any of the NY cases. I suspect they'd prefer if it was New York that did it as they'd be able to get away "clean" from that one whereas the blow-back from a conviction from the congressional investigation might to them quite a bit of damage.

    That way , they can still keep the MAGA crowd onside by leaning heavily into the "Trump is a victim of the Deep-State" blah blah blah.

    They are caught between their Cowardice and their Avarice for power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,441 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I don’t think it’s any secret that people like McConnell would love to see the back of Donald Trump.

    well given his reaction when asked whether he was one of the republicans who tested mark meadows he sounded like he was getting the popcorn ready, because he said he wasn’t but he’s interested to see who did, which if he was playing the Trump party line he’d use the trump bingo card and claim witch-hunt. As McConnell said in the aftermath of the attack on January 6th(which many GOP members felt it was in private) Donald Trump is not out of legal trouble. The GOP want the out of Trump being removed from possible reelection by something or someone other than themselves.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭✭briany


    There's no point even talking if American states start that kind of carry-on. It's pretty much saying you've no faith in the democratic systems of the USA and are attempting to force your guy into office, which is simply autocracy, and that's the makings for either the country splitting or going to war with itself. It would just be an untenable situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,302 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Do you pay attention to what is actually happening on the ground in US politics at all?

    The GOP is putting all its efforts to prepare county election boards and state certifying authorities to be in place to influence how the next Presidential election is going to play out.

    Trump lost the popular vote by nearly 8M last time out, even with that, a swing of only a couple hundred thousand votes in key states would have been enough to return him. That is what the GOP is focused on. Ensuring the margins are controllable by them in the swing states.

    It likely will have nothing to do with a significant number of people switching from having voted for Biden to voting for Trump. I'd say the number of people who would actually do this are likely to be in the small thousands given Trumps behaviour since he lost the election. Why would they? Biden has been professional, has passed progressive Bills and has gone on with a fraction of 1% of the BS we saw from Trump. But in 2024, not everyone might be able to vote as they did in 2020 if the GOP get their way and that should concern people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    And if he wins, the Dems will only have themselves to blame. Nothing you have aid changes that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,302 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    So, if the Republicans break the law to inhibit voting, or the certification of votes, its' the Democrats fault?

    Your logic doesn't surprise me, it follows the conservative mantra of 'accuse others of that which you are guilty' to the letter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Do you think I'm a conservative?

    The 24 pres. election cycle hasn't even begun and you are already proclaiming election fraud. At least Trump lost before he started really banging that drum. As I've said before, both sides as deluded as each other.



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