Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Yep . If we are to be fully open as a society that's looking like the figure that will be in our hospitals give or take. Once this new variant is hopefully confirmed as not game changing i think the HSE will be told to get on with things.

Micheál Martins comments last night has pulled all the little authoritarians out of the woodwork and given them permission to voice their true opinions.

Reddit Ireland last night was noticeably more extreme than it's usual extreme self. Some of the opinions being put forward are quite frightening if they were to be enacted.

The discontinuation of both the HSPC and (as it seems for the moment) the CSO vaccination break down reports makes it now almost impossible to see if the collapse of confirmed unvaccinated case rates continued beyond the 12 November.

It does seem from the new style HSPC report that the confirmed unvaccinated case rate may have been as low as 4% for the week between 12 November and 20 November. (Scratch that. See note below).

Beyond that is definitely unknown.

Edit: CSO report has now been updated with new figures. Percentages raised for some weeks.

New figures now correspond with HSPC figures for confirmed unvaccinated showing 13% all cases between 17 Oct and 20 Nov.

CSO report:

Thanks for sharing that info.

I was bamboozled as to where the new report was relating to deaths & ICU by vaccination status.

The HPSC data is shaky at best, due to the "with covid" categorization rather than anything to do with symptoms / reason for admission / comorbidities etc.

As someone who works with stats every day, I find the packaging of the data deeply troubling.

It smacks of incompetence or plain old obfuscation, and I sense many of the disagreements among the public and here on boards can be directly attributed to the confusion that results from poor data collection and analysis.

Unfortunately the new style HSPC report makes almost impossible to calculate the weekly ICU admissions and death notifications by vaccination status without going through months of other reports.

This is because they have changed the start date of the reports from April 1st to June 27th.

It may be possible to work it out again when the next report is released assuming they keep June 27th as the start date.

By then the information will be two weeks out of date rather than one.

This is because the current report only goes as far as the 20th of November which was also the end date of the old report released on the 26th.

I will put up whatever I find but it is not a secret. The information is there. It is just that the way it is produced makes it very difficult to interpret.

I can do the easy ones but only someone who knows what they are doing might be able to trawl through the rest.

How does that conflate to recent hospitalisation though?

is fairly clear that with community transmission a higher number of cases will be in vaccinated, as that’s the vast majority of the community. That’s nothing anti vaccination, it’s simple fact.

the correspondence of those cases to hospitalisation is where we need to be looking

Here is the UK latest data

Certainly a lot of covering it up going on. This morning the experts are giving out pure lies about it

I think you should be asking the question as to how in 2021 in a first world country with one of the highest per capita spends on health in the EU finds itself in a situation where with a population of 5 million having around 50 people in icu means your're left in limbo rather that blaming "de unvaxxed" just cos the man on the telly tells you they're the problem.

Surgeries have been deferred and cancelled every winter for years due to capacity issues in Irish hospitals. For example from 2018: HSE Winter Plan highlights vulnerability of scheduled surgery – RCSI President - Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and from 2017: Surgeries at Cork hospital cancelled for two weeks as flu and 'revelry' make their impact (thejournal.ie)

You really have to hand it to government & HSE PR that they have manged to deflect criticism of years of government incompetence and mismanagement away from themselves and onto the bogeyman of the unvaxxed. Unfortunately people are buying it and absolutely lapping it up as they have a nice handy bogeyman to direct their ire at i.e. the "unvaxxed", while the government and HSE get off scot-free.

The media will always misreport any data in order to generate fear. Normally they will just fabricate conclusions with impunity - but somehow our HSPC are also helpfully generating extraordinarily oscillating data, without explanation, for them to play with!

Our Public Health team have an ethical duty of care to make known their concerns. Tony Holohan had a moment a couple weeks ago where he spoke out about vaccines and transmission. We need another one of those moments now. I think lots of people who are cautious about vaccines would have more trust in our HSE if we saw that type of leadership.

Meanwhile in Germany, they have just appointed an Epidemiologist as Minister for Health.

https://www.politico.eu/article/epidemiologist-karl-lauterbach-germany-health-minister-olaf-scholz/?s=08

why are you treating them with kid gloves?

these people are a danger to humanity and could cause the collapse of western civilisation

It's funny those laying the blame at hospital capacity, clearly ignoring the wave of much harsher restrictions across Europe. I've a colleague arrived back today from a European tour who had to skip Austria because of their lockdown, and a relative who arrived in the Netherlands for work yesterday, basically has to stay in his room after 5pm because there's literally nothing open. Even the hotel bar & restaurant is closed, room service only. Germany, Belgium, lots of others imposing far worse restrictions than we are.

Is our capacity sh1t? It sure is. Are the new restrictions necessary? No. Are the unvaccinated a problem? Abso-****-lutely. Even the UK, the shining light of the let 'er rip brigade, is bringing back in restrictions to protect their hospitals from the unvaccinated.

This is a much more complex problem than, "If our hospitals were up to scratch we'd need no restrictions". Would we have less restrictions? Oh for sure. Would we still need masks & certs for indoor spaces and be stressing over infection rates in kids? Yes, we absolutely would.