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Is religion merely failed science?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Tell you what - I'll do that right after you respond to the criticism of the Roman Catholic church. Or will you just deflect, yet again?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,257 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato



    In what way can the misdeeds of the P church excuse the misdeeds of the C church, or vice versa?

    Two cheeks of the same arse as far as I'm concerned and a pox on both their houses.

    Watching the recent religious celebration of 100 years of partition was sickening. Church leaders getting together to stroke their already massive egos and pretend they're all really important guys whose organisations are still as relevant as ever to society. Oh and they're just the lads to fix all of the problems their churches caused... as if.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    So because I do not believe something for which you have provided absolutely NO evidence.... you think you can extrapolate from that what I would believe in a hypothetical situation where there might be evidence?

    This is basically an ad hominem move. Making it about me personally (by making up things about me, a person you do not know at all) rather than simply acknowledge that while you might PERSONALLY believe in a god.... there is no argument, evidence, data or reasoning forthcoming substantiating such a believe.

    I have seen these moves from theists so many times over so many years. That move you made before of pretending the reason we do not believe there is a god is because we do not want to be held accountable to our creator..... has been tried many times. You are attempting to replace evidence with ad hominem motivations and narratives.

    I do not believe there is a god at this time, because I have never been shown even one single reason to think there is a god at this time. Any other motivations, narratives, or pretty little fairy tales you want to tell yourself about me and why I do not believe the claim.... is just your imagination at work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Human radio waves have not travelled "over 100 million light years", they have travelled approx. 116 light years - they have been travelling out into space for 116 years at the speed of light. This is a tiny, tiny fraction of the size of our own galaxy - roughly 100,000 light years, never mind the rest of the universe - 45-50 billion light years.

    The "where is everybody" theory fails to understand the distances involved, and how vanishingly unlikely it is that one intelligent life should happen to come across another.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    "Is religion merely failed science?"

    Curious wording. It almost gives the impression (wrongly) that science has provided all the answers. It may very well provde all the answers in time but that is for future generations to reep.

    Religion is complimentary or supplementary even because ultimately while science may provide all the answers there is always the question as to what made it all happen or provded the questions. Religion is an attempt to provide an explanation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    With respect, no you don't.

    At the start of your life you had about 10 years "experience" of Santa, the tooth fairy and may be the easter bunny.

    And again, with respect, no you didn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    You don't know what you're talking about. Even a fool is considered wise when he says nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭techman1


    Yes you are correct, that was just a typo 100 light years, rather than 100 million light years, I actually do know what a light year is, still 100 light years is a vast difference many of the stars we see in the night sky are much closer than this.

    In every other area though science is evidence based , yet in this one area regarding the possibility of intelligent life in the universe it does the opposite, it presumes their must be life out there just that the distances are too great. Surely for consistency science should take the position as it does in every other area that because we have zero evidence of life and have never encountered life throughput the entirety of human history that there is nothing out there and we are unique. That is the position that Fermi took, "Where is everybody"



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays



    Why would they want to join us when we'll have ½ million muslims in a few decades and all the idiots will still be criticising the Catholic church.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Reply to your initial question

    NO



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭dublin49


    religion is merely a failure of logic ,a soother for adults .



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    In every other area though science is evidence based , yet in this one area regarding the possibility of intelligent life in the universe it does the opposite, it presumes their must be life out there just that the distances are too great. Surely for consistency science should take the position as it does in every other area that because we have zero evidence of life and have never encountered life throughput the entirety of human history that there is nothing out there and we are unique. That is the position that Fermi took, "Where is everybody"

    The difference being that science is using the vastness of space and what we currently know about how life is formed, and making the logical statement that we can't be the only planet in the entire UNIVERSE that can support life (right down to the level of tardigrade is usually enough, as if they are there, then life can probably exist and, as a result, intelligent life). So it's fair to assume there is alien life out there, even intelligent life. And that's because we can't see all of space, it's literally impossible, and we're seeing less and less every second as the universe expands.

    Religion however, has nothing to go on. Just belief. No facts to base anything else on, just random books written by people from a time when science was still in its infancy. There's no physical proof of god. There's no trail of evidence for him, just beliefs that the unknown was done by him. And that God mainly also depends on which part of the globe you were born in. When science says no, it's because there's literally no evidence. Life in space, 100% possible so that's why they say it (unless you really do think that the Earth is the only planet that can support life in an universe of approximately:

    400 billion planets in the Milky Way. 21.6 trillion planets in the Local Group. 2 quadrillion planets in the Virgo Supercluster. 21.6 sextillion (21,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) planets in the observable universe. We don't even know what % of space that is. And people think Earth is the only one to support life. And God made it... Right yeah!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Life can be beautiful. Pretty much everyone experienced that at some stage for some time in their life. Generally and naturally the less beauty/happy you get, the more you pin your hope on to find somewhere some time in the future. Religion is easy answer promising reward usually after lifetime of hard work.

    Most of religions were seized or outright invented by powers that be as a perfect tool of oppression. Precise sets of rules and orders to follow with vague reward offer after you die.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭dublin49


    Faith,the trump card to beat all trump cards,what a magnificient construct,untouchable by logic,imperious to common sense,requiring no knowledge and instantly attainable once you decide its in your best interest to follow the herd or you accept what your parents decide you should believe .



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Relgion has its core aim as a set of morals and beliefs that see to understand the moral world as oppose to that of the physical. That sums up the core message of scientists such as the late Stephen J. Gould. Where there was a gap in the infrastructure of underdering, such as the Medieval times, the Church did create schools and universitys that had a side-benefit of creating knowledge to lay the foundation of the scientific world. To imagine though there is a kind of morally to be had be clinging onto the coat-tails of science, that betokens a simple-minded way of thinking that many modern seculists are prey to.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,231 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Evolution is not pseudo science, rather it is an educated guess that has been supported by the analysis of objective, empirical inductive and deductive data over time. So long as the preponderance of data suggests merit in the scientific theory of evolution, it may serve, and has served scientific research and discovery in the examination and explanation of phenomena.

    To claim that it is pseudo without empirical evidence to support its falsification (see Karl Popper, et al) appears to be merely an anecdotal opinion of yours, not based on the application of the scientific method. Rather, your claim seems to be one based on faith not science.

    Furthermore, repetitious affirmations of your faith does not provide a convincing argument, nor your lack of objective empirical data to falsify evolution theory, or science in general, no matter how often you repeat yourself in this thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Religion is brainwashing, pure and simple.

    Children believe what you tell them. You tell them a guy living in the North Pole makes toys, comes into every house in the world to give kids toys one night a year and they believe it.

    The only difference is there's no proof God doesn't exist, but there's none he does either.

    The afterlife is a coping mechanism for people who are afraid of the dark.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    So to take your first sentence. It's all guesswork. Dress it up how you like in pseudo science speak its a guess and no more.

    Evolution hasn't explained to me the order and complexity of the created universe, nor can it. It can only make a guess and deny Creator.

    I suggest you read John C Lennox, an Irish writer who is both a scientist and a believer in a Creator.



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  • Posts: 533 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Science simply isn’t a belief system or a dogma. It’s just a method of inquiry and a way of seeing past various common biases to get to raw facts.

    Religion is a belief system that relies on faith and dogma.

    They're neither comparable nor interchangeable, except that some people get very annoyed when scientific facts challenge a dogmatic belief.

    You might as well be saying a Santa Claus and his reindeer are in direct competition with or comparable to an Airbus A320. One of them is a lovely story. The other will get you from Ireland to a Spain.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,231 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    What is your unscientific faith based explanation for Neanderthals that existed 35,000 to 120,000 years ago?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    You wouldn't believe me even if I told you. A pointless discussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    So, in other words, your doctrine doesn't explain it? You also say Creator, which one would that be? What name do they go by?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    It is not "all guesswork." Poster was presumably using simple language as if they've read this thread they'll have seen how uninformed you are about the basics of science. When they talk about an "educated guess", they mean that you can draw inferences from the available, observable evidence. One can then develop hypotheses. And test them, refining where necessary. This article explains it quite well.

    If, as you say, you have failed to understand evolution, I suggest reading River Out of Eden or The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution by Richard Dawkins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I've not failed to understand science at all. I just refuse to equate religion (I don't believe in religion.. It doesn't work) with science.

    Faith and science operate on a totally different basis.just because I operate in the area of faith doesn't mean I don't understand science.

    It's arrogance on your part to think I don't understand science.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,231 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Why do I find it ironic that you claim I “wouldn’t believe” you? Emphasis upon the word “believe.” Whereupon science only suggests. This difference exhibiting the essence of the OP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    It's arrogance on your part to think I don't understand science.

    Nope. It's your statements in this thread that demonstrate you don't understand science. Statements like:

    the pseudo science of evolution which removes the need of a creator which has just provided theories and not much else

    I'm not hostile to evolution. It's just a theory

    Evolution by its very nature is said to occur over long periods of time. No one has lived long enough to observe it. So it's not observed fact.

    There we go again. Theory 🤣

    Mutation within a species is not evolution.

    I can have a theory that [it must be rabbits!] JFK was caught in a crossfire, or that there's a conspiracy to stop anyone winning the lotto. That's "theory" in the common or lay sense. Theory in the scientific sense means something else entirely, and you don't appear to understand that.

    Here's a pretty good explanation, written for the layman (no pun intended). Tl;dr version: A "theory", as used in science, has a far higher bar than a "theory" in non-scientific common use.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,281 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    radio waves may have reached 116 light years by now but if anyone receiving those waves was to respond or travel here then we are talking about a lot smaller distance. 58 light years to be exact assuming they responded immediately.

    As for your question on the probability of intelligent life elsewhere it is evidence based. there is no evidence that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,281 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    are you a young earth or an old earth creationist?



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