Can the ESB come onto private property and start digging to repair a fault without permission?

Cyrus · 17-11-2021 5:04pm #1

I am assuming maybe they can but the following happened today,

I live in a small estate. The common areas are owned by the OMC. This morning a large civil contractor came in, erected some men at work signs, parked a HGV and a van on the footpath and started digging a trench, removing a planted hedge at the entrance.

I walked over at lunch time to ask them what they were doing and at whose direction. The gentleman told me it was an electrical fault and he was waiting on the ESB to come and repair now that he had dug up the area.

No one in the estate or any member of the OMC was informed of these works.

To me its the same as parking in someones drive way and digging up their front garden, albeit this piece of land is jointly owned by 20 houses rather than one.

Is this permitted?

Claw Hammer · 17-11-2021 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218415/can-the-esb-come-onto-private-property-and-start-digging-to-repair-a-fault-without-permission

The land is owned by the management company not by 20 houses.

Effects · 17-11-2021 6:56pm

They came on to my private property a few years back. Tore the garden up. They had to get a landscaper out to put it back right after calling them on it. Seems to happen often enough.

FishOnABike · 17-11-2021 7:21pm

I believe ESB Networks would have a wayleave granting them access to maintain the network and carry out any necessary maintenance or repairs.

Making good any damage by returning the area to the same condition it was in prior to their work would usually be a condition of a wayleave.

Effects · 17-11-2021 10:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182328#Comment_118182328

Yes, but they don't always leave it as they should. They tore my garden to shreds, and said nothing about it. Had to complain, and only then they got the proper landscapers out.

17-11-2021 10:12pm

Usually they’d inform households of any necessary works unless it’s an emergency. Will you be without power when the networks team come in?

Cyrus · 17-11-2021 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182168#Comment_118182168

That's semantics, the 20 house owners are the members of the OMC.

Based on the other comments this is relatively common so thanks all for the context .

Claw Hammer · 23-11-2021 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183289#Comment_118183289

It is far from semantics. The management company is a separate legal entity from its members and directors.

Cyrus · 23-11-2021 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210369#Comment_118210369

The OMC is the legal owner of the common areas on behalf of the owners of the units.

The Directors are the representatives of the OMC,

Im not even sure what point you are trying to make?

seamus · 23-11-2021 1:46pm

The point really is that being the member of an OMC does not give any of the property owners explicit domain over the land or the OMC. You own an equal share in a company that owns the common area.

Property owners themselves are not entitled to be notified of works nor to demand information from anyone carrying out works on the common area. The directors or their agent would be the only ones entitled.

In the same way that if you own a few shares in a company, you have no right to walk into their buildings and demand employees tell you what they're doing or grant you the right to use their toilet.

Claw Hammer · 23-11-2021 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210560#Comment_118210560

The OMC is the legal owner. It does not hold on behalf of the owners of the units. The owners either have leases from the OMC or have freeholds with covenants in favour of the OMC. The OMC is a separate legal personality from its directors.

endacl · 23-11-2021 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210560#Comment_118210560

On the interweb, it’s vitally important to be right. Even when the other person isn’t wrong.

mickdw · 23-11-2021 1:50pm

The main point here is that yes the ESB will have a wayleave to do any required repair or upgrade works.

They will generally return ground to reasonable condition. If it's a field, it will be just finished with digger.

If it's a lawn' I'd suggest that contact is made with them to ensure that area is properly top soiled and seeded again.

Cyrus · 23-11-2021 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210587#Comment_118210587

The directors weren't informed, nor was their agent. I am a director so good to know i was entitled to know what the man with the digger was doing on our property. Not that he was going to know one way or the other unless he had a vision net account handy.

And while your analogy might be factually correct the reality is somewhat different in a small estate with few residents.

Cyrus · 23-11-2021 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210609#Comment_118210609

Thanks Mick, its a week later and they have left some expensive portuguese laurels dug up and the area cordoned off.

Cyrus · 23-11-2021 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210591#Comment_118210591

You should get the CCPC to correct their website then

The OMC is established for three reasons:

To manage and maintain common areas in a multi-unit development
To be the legal owner of the common areas on behalf of the owners of the units
To be the legal owner of the beneficial or reversionary interest of each unit. This means that the OMC owns a share in each unit.

In fact in the OP i said the area is owned by the OMC, so despite having gotten the answer to the question i asked for a few days ago you are persisting with this.

Claw Hammer · 23-11-2021 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210954#Comment_118210954

What the CCPC are saying is drivel.

You said in one paragraph the land is owned by the CMC and in another that it is owned by 20 houses. You don't seem too clear about it.

Cyrus · 23-11-2021 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212397#Comment_118212397

I said it was owned by the OMC, and the reality is that the owners of the properties who are members of the OMC effectively own and control the land.

You can argue pointless semantics all you want.

Claw Hammer · 24-11-2021 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212818#Comment_118212818

A company is run by its directors, not its members.

Cyrus · 24-11-2021 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215605#Comment_118215605

in this case where a 75% majority vote is required for any proposal beyond the normal approved budget which requires the same majority i would disagree.

Claw Hammer · 24-11-2021 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215707#Comment_118215707

The law is the law, whether you agree with it or not.

Cyrus · 24-11-2021 4:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216636#Comment_118216636

And reality is reality.

Can the ESB come onto private property and start digging to repair a fault without permission?

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