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"The Great Resignation"

  • 19-11-2021 11:23am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭


    This is a fairly new phenomena where people are simply quitting their jobs because they don't see the value in having a job anymore.


    It sounds mad, yet there it is.


    Talking with friends in the states it seems to be a very hot topic over there. Some say it's due to living costs just being too much and others say it's that companies should pay much more. Two sides of a coin.


    As one said, if you're working in the likes of McDonald's and there's no chance at getting your own home, and if you're not going to end up homeless and can survive on government subsidies, then there really isn't any point working beyond affording a few transient luxuries.


    I say it's spreading far beyond the likes of McDonald's, and now would include most junior positions in just about any sector, and probably a lot of senior positions in some sectors too.


    When you look at the rent scandals here (and there), is it any wonder people are just throwing up their hands in defeat?


    There's massive unemployment in Ireland in some areas and demographics, yet all you see are "staff wanted" signs everywhere. Something doesn't add up.


    Theres something extra stinky about this situation and it better be tackled head on immediately because disaster lays ahead.


    Imagine being an 18 year old living here and looking at your prospects, even the cost of rent to go to college is eyewatering.


    Affordability of life may be the single biggest threat to stability the world has seen in a very long time, because while increasing numbers of people may bow out of the economy, it doesn't mean they're happy about it. And plenty of pissed off people with plenty of time on their hands isn't a good combination.



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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think the governments need to get involved in the markets to do something about the inequality. The idea that markets fix all problems is a bit naive. Property markets are totally distorted due to investors. I think they should put some limits on how much property one person or company can own.


    It's like if you are lucky enough to be in the top 10%, economically or intellectually, the world's your oyster. If you are average, it's incredibly hard to visualise owning a 3-bed semi.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There's massive unemployment in Ireland in some areas and demographics, yet all you see are "staff wanted" signs everywhere. Something doesn't add up.

    I've been looking for work (for the last 6-6 months). I returned to Ireland just before covid, but continued working online during the year after until my contract was finished. Then, I started looking for work in Ireland, since I'd like to stay around my elderly parents during the covid period. There are plenty of ads online for jobs, which I'm more than qualified for (both education and experience), but.. nothing. Not even the pretense of interviews. I've seen the same job ads come up repeatedly every few months, as if they've found people, and then, lost them again pretty quickly.

    Yeah, I'd agree that something doesn't add up. I suspect if you're highly specialised then there's plenty of jobs, but for any kind of generalist, the pickings are slim (regardless of the jobs advertised)

    I suspect I'll be moving on again soon. I've had far more success with queries to jobs in Germany/France than I have here. I suspect that's going to be the case for most young people too... unless you want to work at a low paid retail/hospitality position, with few protections or benefits.

    Theres something extra stinky about this situation and it better be tackled head on immediately because disaster lays ahead.

    It won't be tackled. There's a cycle to these things.. enough prosperity for a while, so people forget what went before, and then, it swings back again... affecting others. It's easily ignored/dismissed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭techman1


    Well if people are choosing not to work in low wage jobs and just stay on benefits, it means two things wages in these jobs are too low and need to rise, this is actually happening, secondly benefits are too good and need to be reduced. Twenty years ago the gap between the dole and low wage jobs was much higher, even the lowest paid job would pay twice as much as the dole back then, but the dole was very low as well nowhere like today.

    The very generous PUP payments also exaggerated this "great resignation" , the government now seems keen to shut this down completely now though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,515 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    I'll wager a goodly number of those vacancies are poorly paid jobs where staff get kicked around by bad bosses.

    People aren't going to put up with that kind of race to the bottom sh1t anymore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    I 100% agree with the luck of having a home owner all to yourself, it's the difference between success and failure in life now.


    However, I don't agree with the intelligence thing. You could be the smartest thing since sliced bread, but there is poor correlation between intelligence and earnings.


    The "markets" are beyond screwed. There's a bloke in a city area in the states of whom I know, and he has bought up 6 of the big waterfront properties, just for himself. No family or anything, one single bloke. He has essentially blocked access to what should be a public amenity. Imagine that with the likes of bull island in Dublin. The inequality taking it's grip everywhere is out of control.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This seems to be it. What minimum wage says to me is that my employer would knock a euro per hour off my salary if the minimum wage were to be lowered. People seem to think that they can have anything they want without paying for it. You get one life. Why waste it doing a crap job for the minimum legal compensation.

    I only say "crap job" because jobs with low wages and terrible managers are crap jobs. I'm not suggesting at all that jobs like caring and hospitality are crap. There seems to be less and less point in working or trying to be better when house prices soar so much faster than wages grow. My mate bought a place in a sh*tehole in Dublin for just over 300k and then sold it 2 years later for nearly 400k. It's beyond a joke.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭enricoh


    It's costing more and more to go to work, petrol now 1.72 at my local station, new and second hand car prices rising big time too.

    Anyone renting on under e15 an hour is probably better off on the dole as the government will pay their rent. Fuel allowance, back to school allowance etc etc. Any bit of a nixer at all and they are miles better off.

    It's nuts but the country has turned into a welfare state in the last 20 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    Yeah there is something that just doesn't add up about it all. Which is what you get with broken policies.


    On the one hand you have loads of people out of work, but then they tell you we have full employment. They'll say we have "skill shortages" that are never defined, and that we need more migration into the country, yet there's an affordability crisis looming, an existing health system crisis and an existing housing crisis and so on.


    It's mickey mouse "rob Paul to pay Peter" scenarios left right and center. No wonder people are just bowing out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    I know what you mean, but my inclination is that it is the "top" that needs to be tackled.


    It isn't wages decreasing that's the problem, it's the rapidly increasing costs.


    You'll never catch up with a runaway scenario like that just by throwing more magic money at it, you need to stop and then reduce the factors increasing cost.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well everything is linked together so it's hard to talk about resignations without bringing up the property market.

    Never mind "low" jobs like working in McDonalds, someone on €50k with a non-working partner and a kid or 2 will likely be better off not working. We've put in place a system whereby rent is seen as just an inconvenience for certain people. Where it used to cost 800 a month to rent a place it's now 1300+. That's a massive hatchet taken to people who pay their own rent, for those who don't they've gained in comparison.

    For single people if you're on minimum wage but things align for you to get HAP then you can end up 50 quid a week worse off without working and be insulated from more rent increases.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I've no idea how you're getting interest in France or Germany. I saw a job advertised in Galway of all places. While it'd be nice to be near the parents, with my luck they'd go bust and then I'm stuck in the west of Ireland on benefits.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    That was a friend who brought up McDonald's as an example. I wouldn't criticise the company, they seem perfectly fine for what they are.


    The problem is that it isn't worth working in them.


    These types of jobs should mostly be the mainstay of students working their way through college, but they can't get a look in either because they've been soaked up, hence the 60%+ unemployment in youth. Yet they'll still be expected to pay the rents to attend college.


    But as you say, there is a rapidly increasing amount of people in all sorts of jobs that just don't make economic sense. It's just getting far, far too expensive, and it's pretty much all down to housing.


    It's bad news from every angle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    modern political and economic ideologies have failed, its time for us to dig our heads out of the sand, and sort it, or we face the likelihood of serious conflicts!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,447 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I think various diverse online "movements" which existed before Covid are relevant here. ERE/FIRE, MGTOW, Incels, anti consumerists. Also the gig economy and digital nomadism could be factors.

    Both a 20 year old who is struggling in every aspect of his life and a 40 year old millionaire who has been saving and investing for years may be encouraged to resign or not bother with traditional paid employment. Covid has been a massive disruption and may well have pushed people over the edge and changed their outlook on life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    A new kind of worker has emerged in Japan over the past 2-3 decades, called a 'freeter'. In one sense, it means anybody who does not work solely for a single company, so it could refer to something similar to a freelancer, who would still work hard and make good money.

    But, more commonly, it refers to people who have (by choice or having no alternative) opted out of the rat race and the 'permanent corporate slave for the next 45 years, start a family, get a mortgage' culture, and just work a small number of part-time stress-free jobs, earning just enough to get by and giving them time to do stuff they enjoy (as much as they can afford at least).

    More possible in Japan than here thanks to an abundance of cheap places for rent - here'a a shoebox in a reasonably central part of Yokohama (same suburb I lived in 20 years ago, that's why I looked it up) for €335 a month, and there is much less aversion to such tiny apartments than there would be here. But then, here in Ireland, the safety net provides for much more than in Japan, so maybe it evens out that way.

    I can understand how a person, especially a young and/or single childless person might look at rising costs of almost everything, and look at people 10-15 years older still scrambling to scrape a deposit together, and say 'F**k this, what's the point' and settle for/settle into an unemployed/part-time worker lifestyle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    I recognise some of those acronyms.


    However, I have an inclination that there may be a surprising correlation/causation between the rise of these things and the cost of living.


    In other words, people don't get pissed off for nothing, there's always an underlying cause, and I'd bet a simple line graph of housing costs against the emergence of such outlooks would track right alongside each other.


    An acquaintance has the very simple outlook that if things keep going the way they are, he's just going to "start robbing" because he's getting robbed.


    This is the society that's being built, and in a single word, it is the height of "unsustainable".



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    I'd imagine that a lot of these freelancers are there through lack of options rather than choice.


    The difference being, they won't be happy about it. They may frame their outcomes as a choice in some sort of rationalisation, but it probably isn't a choice at all in my opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    Isn't social welfare crap in the US? What are they doing for money?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ....its more closer to what welfare in the states! robbing and other criminal acts, food banks, and addictions.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,078 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I think its only the start of inflation, in fairness in the eighties they lived through paying 65% income tax and 17% unemployment, hopefully we wont see that again. The weird thing is the stock market continues to rise despite the discounted future cash flows due to inflation. There's no fundamentals in the market anymore, for example the promise of an electric vehicle company puts its market cap higher than the likes of ford. Despite the fact that I don't see the general population affording EV, nor does the infrastructure support it. The US government appears to be supporting liquidity and cheap debt. I think its a false market. I don't blame capitalism for this, I blame government interference in the market. I don't blame left or right because they have both done it in their time in the seat. It only benefits those who participate in capital markets and those people are already wealthy enough to invest. It seems it pays for governments to support the interests of the welathy



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  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    Yeah exactly, take a stroll through some of their cities and it looks like you've stepped into the apocalypse.


    Their social welfare system barely creaks by, but the homelessness and general crime is through the roof, no matter what they decide to report or not.


    I know several people and families that are actively looking to move back here, jacking in well paid jobs to have a "low standard of life" as they put it, rather than the possibility of no standard of life over there.


    But as I tell them, what's happening there is progressing rapidly here too. The Ireland they left is gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    I'd be extremely wary of taking reported numbers as anything other than PR.


    There are absolutely things that are worse off now than in the 80's. But besides that, nobody cares so much about the past, it's about their future that they care, and it's looking bleak.


    As for it paying off for governments to create this kind of society, they'll find out that it doesn't pay in the end. Everyone will find out that it doesn't pay in the end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...the abilities of the market in providing us with all our needs is a fantasy, made up by humans, based on pure sh1te ideas that has no basis in reality, such as 'rational expectations' etc, its time for us to grow up and accept this reality, or we risk completely destroying ourselves. current inflation issues are more to do with serious supply side issues, than money creation, as central banks having been trying for years now to gain inflation, and have been largely unable to do so, but we have successfully caused a hyper inflation situation in most, if not all of our asset markets, by encouraging and promoting whats called fire sector lead economies, or also called financialisation of our economies, this approach is now starting to collapse, so, go us! yes, both the left and right have been engaging in these ideologies and beliefs, so really, go us!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, I applied for jobs throughout mainland Europe, and I've had interviews with many of the places I applied to. I'm shortlisted for a variety of those positions. Whereas I've had zero interviews in Ireland, and just a few emails back acknowledging the applications. Jobs being advertised isn't the problem. I'm qualified for a wide range of positions, but there's just no response to the applications.

    I was frustrated before with the situation, but now I'm just resigned. Europe is fine for being close to the parents, as long as another lockdown doesn't happen.



  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I see as the problem, welfare too high. But has to be high because costs to live are so much. But costs to live are because the government interferes with rents and living costs.


    Rents are high because of low competition. Low competition is caused by government regulating landlords out of the market.


    Living costs are high because of government putting taxes on fuels, and then charging vat on taxes. Everything is delivered by fuels (heat, light, transport, food) even battery cars are delivered and fueled by diesel trucks and power stations



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    i know of an irish family, that has done very well over there, has recently moved to spain, it has become too bad for them, the father said he didnt see a future for his kids there, scary stuff really.

    yes, ireland has dramatically changed in the last few decades, but thankfully we havent taken on this extreme form of capatalism, such as america, and i suspect we re all starting to realise, something is very wrong with it, we re at a critical turning point right now, hopefully we do what needs to be done, which i think we are and will do



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Welfare isn't really the problem though. The numbers on welfare are relatively low, especially in comparison to other periods in our past. The issue of people needing welfare supplements while working and earning a wage is a bigger problem, but still, the numbers involved are low.

    But I'd agree with the rest of what you said. Might as well throw in the costs that will increase due to covid and our governments responses to it. That's going to increase taxes substantially across the board, and the reaction to covid is the new normal now... increased costs (beyond what is currently happening) are going to be a fact of life.

    There really needs to be a greater focus by governments on building up profitable small-medium sized businesses in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, this is more so the free market libertarian view of whats going on, even though not completely wrong, you re also not completely right either. we need to get over this idea of so called government 'interference', this type of language only truly came about in the last few decades, from the so called thatcher/regean era, effectively attempting to demonise welfare classes, and the 'interactions' of governments. since this era, the cost of living has sky rocketed, this has been done from a multitude of approaches, i.e. demonise welfare classes, attack government and state regulations, advocate for de-regulation of markets, particularly in relation to finance, and more so with the fire sectors in general. all this in turn has inflated asset markets into what can only be described as hyper inflationary at this stage, most obvious being in property and land markets, baring in mind, asset ownership is heavily skewed, leading to rapidly rising inequality.

    again, you re overly criticising governments, even though governments have indeed played a critical role in creating these outcomes, as both the left and right have been advocating for these approaches in running our societies and economies, yes they have indeed helped cause it, but not entirely



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,078 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I am working in the US in one of the largest aum hedge funds in the world. I work as a developer in quant trading. I have been over here for a decade and we have a house, good chunk of retirement and no debts. The lifestyle is good, I'm glad I left Ireland post recession, it definitely worked for me. However, if we have a kid, there's no chance I am staying here, I don't want to raise children in this absolute mad house. My only choice here would be private education and I don't want a entitled kid, nor do I want the cyber bullying or the materialism and the superficial culture here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I can see where they are coming from.

    We are going to live in Portugal as soon as this covid business is over.

    My brother is already there.

    Im just retiring in my early 50s :)

    Why? Because im sick to death of paying 50% of all the overtime or income from other jobs I do. Ive had enough.

    Then watching other family members who never worked a day in their life have all this time off, plenty of money and a house worth €500k handed to them.

    Fcuk that. Im out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    unfortunately another part of these ideologies is to promote and encourage monopolisation of markets, which effectively crushes sme's out of existence, you can see our of government defaulting to this continually, its happening as we speak, for example, pandemic supports for employees and employers should have never been withdrawn, this seriously increases the likelihood of many sme's failing in the coming months, whereby most large businesses/corporations will just be fine.... and baring in mind, most are employed in the sme's sectors.

    another element of these ideologies is balancing budgets and taxation, governments actually dont need to balance budgets, in fact by doing so, is actually dangerous, it means we become largely solely reliant on the private sector money supply, which is created by the fire sectors itself, i.e. the credit supply, as happened pre 08, which generally leads to a credit fueled bubble, and......

    we may not in fact need to raise taxes post covid, but since we re locked into these ideologies, i.e. including balancing budgets, we more than likely will, we could just run a budget deficit indefinitely, making sure we service our debts, until fully serviced



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    The way that the welfare system is set up means that it acts as a poverty trap, where people end up in a situation whereby if they start a minimum wage job they're earning the equivalent of cents per hour extra by the time you factor in things like rent supplement payments and medical cards on welfare, and the cost of travel etc. in work.

    Most people don't realise that, having worked since leaving school, until they're put in a position where they're no longer employed or working. Covid will have made a lot more people realise it all of a sudden, so they're probably wondering whether 40 hours (excluding travel) of their time is worth scraps of extra cash. There is very little distance between being very poor and a tiny bit more than very poor. Plus in the age of the internet they wouldn't necessarily need to go to college or official courses to upskill. They could easily sit at home and use their newfound extra time to do online coding bootcamps or online marketing/advertising courses or whatever to put themselves in a position to apply for better paying jobs. Or they could be catching up on every Netflix series ever made. Whatever.

    The downside of that is that as a society, we need the "grunt" workers to man the shops and fast food joints and clean and serve pints and so on. So we need to find a way to bridge the gap between welfare and work to make it worthwhile without the do-gooders getting up in arms about there being a marked difference between the standard of living of people on welfare and people in entry-level employment. It should pay to work.

    My suggestion would be something like a tax system that starts negative (so that people who cannot work or are temporarily unemployed receive whatever the minimum standard of living income is) and adjusts for changing circumstances. So if you start a minimum wage job, your negative tax decreases but only by, say, half, so you're getting half of what you were getting when unemployed plus whatever your employer pays you. And since your income tax at that point is negative and your gross wage is your net, the minimum wage amount could be lowered to make businesses better able to afford to take on new/more workers. As/if your earnings increase, then your income tax would adjust so that eventually you enter positive income tax where you begin to pay into the system. But at every stage, working would afford a significantly better standard of living than not working.

    Of course, the government would have to stop fleecing middle earners on tax and start taking more in corporate, and people who have a bee in their bonnet about "welfare scroungers" or whatever would have to wind their necks in... so that won't happen. But it could!

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm nowhere near retirement but I've been actively changing things over the last two years. I want to get out early, as early as possible. I've family commitments that will always be there and need to be looked after but for now I'm minimizing my outgoings and maximizing my savings, investments and pensions payments. Reducing the taxes I pay as well to the minimum.

    I'm lucky I'm in a high paying job in a booming I.T. industry but I've had enough and hope to be out in the next 5-10 years. This may or may not happen, let's see 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    irish hedge fund manager eric lonergan is also watching this unfold, and is becoming increasingly concerned about it, he realises his sector is playing a critical role in this situation, its very worrying to see serious failures occurring, and we re not sure in how to approach it, but you can see that many keep defaulting to what theyve been told throughout their lives, i.e. blaming welfare classes and foreigners for these failures, when in fact, reality is far more complex than this....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,805 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    I do wonder if a large part of that is just busy-work by recruitment agencies. Even pre-Covid I wondered how many ads actually had jobs behind them..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I'm genuinely at a point where I despair for the future my kids will be trying to live in tbh. Between climate change and the massive inequality our rampantly capitalist system is causing I just don't see how ordinary people have any chance unless there's some kind of global socialist revolution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭cafflingwunts


    are you overqualified perhaps?? family member has a similar problem, was very high up in an Irish bank in her previous role and now can't even get an interview at a Spar because they all expect her to ask for mad money I think.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The world has always been a tough, rough and harsh place. The last 50-60 years have been an anomaly in my opinion. I'm certain our kids will be fine though, they will just have different challenges to overcome.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Sure hard work always paid off. Now, it just gets you subsistence. If you can work smart, that will improve things but not by nearly enough.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think there are less dramatic solutions than global socialist revolution. I think a bit more tax on the top 1% will recoup a lot these days, given how the gap between the rich and rest has grown so big in recent years. Just 5% extra tax help the little people.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    A very large part of the problem is globalisation.


    The fact of the matter is that very, very few people get to take advantage of it, while very, very many are paying the price of it. And no, being able to get on a plane is not globalisation.


    The key to a sustainable future is that countries and their people take care of themselves first and foremost.


    When you lump yourself in with global socialism, or global anything, Ireland is going to suffer simply because if it's size.


    We're too small. We're too small to house anyone that wants to drop by from Mozambique, we're too small to have a health system that caters to an exploding population, we're too small to have a strong social welfare system for the rest of the world and so on and so forth.


    We don't need a never-going-to-happen global revolution, we need a national-centric revolution. It isn't as dangerous as it sounds.


    Turf out people that sallied in for free housing and benefits, turf out venture capitalists that have sewn up the housing sector into a nice retirement fund for Canadian teachers unions and Indian conglomerates, and generally get back to being a country of it's people and for it's people.


    If you think a Chinese investor needs help to grow their wealth, you should go off to china. If you think new zealanders have a right to housing, go off to New Zealand and join a housing charity.


    There's a lot that can be done effortlessly and relatively pain-free, you just have to overcome the profiteers and their fake narratives on globalisation.


    Until that penny drops, be prepared to see this country, and others, circle the drain.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I agree, in part, although there is the problem of sustaining unprofitable businesses. The EU has a program in effect throughout Europe aimed at subsidizing businesses, even when they're unprofitable, just to keep people in work. Businesses fail. They're either badly operated, or their markets dry up. New businesses emerge to take advantage of open space in markets, or to create new markets.. and these are the businesses that tend to employ people in the long term. However, this desire to support companies that are failing is dangerous because they're not forced to adapt to changing market conditions. That should be the overall focus in building a resilient economic backbone. It's understandable to help those in hospitality due to covid, but only in the short term, due to the costs to the State, and the taxpayer.

    But yes, there is far too much emphasis in Ireland on multinationals and big business.

    Not really. I find that's just a convenient excuse people throw around. If someone is applying for a position where the salary range is listed, then they're already accepting what's being offered. Besides, I'm not trying to get a retail job, when all my experience/qualifications point at Finance, and/or management. In any case, I've heard of similar difficulties from friends who lost jobs when covid hit, and have since been looking for similar positions to what they had before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Do you think a 5% tax on the wealth of the top 1% could be achieved by any means other than a revolution?

    The sad reality is that there probably aren't enough resources on this planet to afford every adult in the world the 3 bed semi with the white picket fence, partner and two kids, holiday abroad once a year, new car every 5 years lifestyle that most aspire to. As the developing world advances and more are lifted out of poverty, the developed world will need to take the hit for their increased share of those resources (resources being a finite thing). You can be damn sure, however, that it won't be the top 1% whose share of global resources is increasing year-on-year who take that hit though. It'll be the ordinary working and middle classes (who the media owned by the 1% will tell to blame it on the unemployed and immigrants).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Globalisation isn't the problem, it just needs to be managed so that the benefits can be kept and shared around while the costs are mitigated. Many of these problems can be addressed with legislation and better law enforcement.

    The country is not circling the drain by any metric I can see, nor is it anywhere close. It just needs to modernise and adapt just like the UK, the US and everywhere else.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I'd agree that globalisation is a large contributor to these issues but the "build a wall and ignore the plight of those on the other side of it" approach seems a solid recipe for WW3 to me... (particularly when those on the other side happen to be those who climate change is likely to hurt most driving them to migrate to the other side).

    The western world has far more than our fair share of global resources (largely because our ancestors stole it through imperialist invasions of less industrialised societies). Isolationism might seem an appealing strategy for countries that are large enough to be a self-sustaining market (the USA) or rich enough (Switzerland) but De Valera's governments here proved quite conclusively that it's a road to ruin for a small island nation such as ourselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭techman1


    Well the reason why wages are not rising as much as house prices is because of immigration , we need to tackle irregular migration from outside the EU , the whole language school thing is a sham and a vehicle to get many people into the country to do low paid , under the counter work.

    The language schools are profiteering because they know that people will pay the extortionate fees just to get a student visa to enter the country, then they can work legitimately for 20hrs a week and God knows how many hours illegally. There is virtually no checks on the illegal economy in Ireland, you never hear of immigration raids to check on work visas like what happens in other counties.



  • Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭B2021M


    Yes good point. From around 1990 to the crash in 2008 was an unusually quiet and benign time in the Western world (with storm clouds gathering from 9/11 onwards to an extent)



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    Globalisation is 100% the problem. If you have to redefine "globalisation", then it is no longer globalisation as we know it.


    It has allowed cheap labour to ruin economies, to transfer wealth surreptitiously to ruin housing markets for indigenous populations, to escape taxation and overall become a playground for the wealthy to become obscenely wealthy off the backs of people that have no say. Globalisation is 100% the problem.


    As for you saying you can't see how the country is circling the drain "by any metric", you're saying this in a country where the housing crisis is in full swing ruining people's futures, in a thread about "the great resignation", for starters.


    And then you're using the comparison of the likes of the USA, where in this thread alone people are giving first hand experiences of how it's in dire straits, rampant homelessness, drug abuse, the origin of the great resignation and crime all going off the charts, how Irish people over there are looking to escape it.


    Whatever ideas you have about a different form of globalisation, it is patently, evidently not globalisation as it exists right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭funkyzeit100


    There is a very large conversation to be had on the use of resources, I've been involved in many of them.


    The bottom line is that countries should operate on a voluntary, mutually beneficial form of cooperation, rather than forced, single-side benefiting integration. That is the future.


    Regardless of solutions, there's be very few people who would say there aren't mounting problems with how things are done now. It is unsustainable and already it's falling apart at the seams.


    If this is supposed to be "the good times" with a "great economy", then the next recession is going to be out of this world. And all the fingers need to be pointing in the right direction when it comes time to clean up this mess.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Feel free to provide evidence for your claims. As I said, I'm not seeing it. If economies were in ruins, there'd be throngs of homeless people everywhere, riots and so on. Instead, people are just getting on with it. In the UK, we have Brexit and it's the same, economic loss but it's not the end of the world.

    We need global solutions to global problems. Snarling nativism and autarky have never once solved anything.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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